Sad

STEAM DOCTOR

https://nypost.com/2024/01/10/news/couple-found-dead-in-their-bed-as-homes-heater-reached-1000-degrees/

STEAM DOCTOR

Never a good idea to have the unqualified "tinker" with something that can kill. 

EBEBRATT-Ed

Most people just don't realize the dangers involved with electrical, plumbing, gas or oil. It is sad and so preventable.

What bothers me to a large extent is homeowners posting here who are forced into doing their own repairs because they cannot obtain a qualified contractor. So many are billed for service and the equipment still doesn't work.

Homeowners are frustrated and I don't blame them.

It's one thing to pay for good service. It is bad for the industry to to have so many unqualified contractors and service techs.

MaxMercy

STEAM DOCTOR said:

Never a good idea to have the unqualified "tinker" with something that can kill. 

Well, they "fiddled" with it, but I guess tinkering is just as bad as fiddling, even if it's not as musical.

I wonder if the fiddling or tinkering somehow bypassed a safety. That would require at least a basic understanding of the equipment.

Mad Dog_2

The Long Island 🏝 Electric League has a great Bumper Sticker : 
"Wiring is no hobby..call a Licensed Electrician"  I've never been able to think up a just-as-clever catchphrase.  Mad Dog 🐕 

dko

Not enough qualified techs out there to serve everyone.

So the question for this forum is:
Is it better to have given an unqualified person proper information or not at all?
Especially if this person was going at it regardless of if you had given them the information or not.

HomerJSmith

@dko, Give him the information and the down side. Truth is the panacea of all problems.

MaxMercy

dko said:

Not enough qualified techs out there to serve everyone.

So the question for this forum is:
Is it better to have given an unqualified person proper information or not at all?
Especially if this person was going at it regardless of if you had given him the information or not.

That's an excellent question that I can add an opinion based on another totally different trade of which I'm an "expert" - and it certainly isn't HVAC!!

When people ask technical questions about items that can be dangerous, I can tell just how much information to give them along with all the requisite dangers that working on high voltage electronics can entail. The people who say "this item doesn't work, what is wrong with it?" I pretty much ignore. If they give some basic measurements in areas that would make some sense, I give them some information. I can tell by their next reply if they're rank amateurs, have some skill, or would actually thrive in my trade if those chose it. The level of advice I give is based on replies.

Getting off the topic a bit, there's a dearth of competent technicians in my trade as well, as it does leave many people with few options.

I joined this forum because you professionals here know so much more than I do, but while saying that, I can also say with high confidence that I know a lot more about HVAC than some people local to me who are actually in the trade (as scary as that is), so I do understand a lot of the motivation of homeowners who join sites like this.

Steamhead

Which is why I always encourage folks to call a pro.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Trouble is in some areas you can't find a pro.

I admit to being on the fence about providing information to DIY. I understand they have reasons.

They just want their heat or AC to run

They have been screwed over with a bad install or spent a bundle on "repairs" that were just parts changers who didn't fix anything or solve the problem which still exists.

or they want to save some money.

But you don't want someone to blow up or burn down their house.

The only thing I know to do is you can get a feel for if the OP has good knowledge, some knowledge or no knowledge of what he or she is working on and respond accordingly.

I have seen both sides of the story.

Many homeowners that post here know more about their system as any contractor and do better work than most contractors.

But homeowners need to understand why a legit contractor has to charge what they have to charge to just stay in business. Many of them have probably never run a business and don't understand the costs involved and don't need to hold all contractors in disdain.

The contractors need to understand that the a lot of homeowners would probably rather hire someone to fix there problems if

Things could get fixed the first time and correctly and they didn't have to deal with unqualified contractors and the parts changers they employ.

Most people don't mind paying if something is done right.

WMno57

A tragedy, and although we don't know all the facts, probably preventable.
My condolences to the family.
I'm posting the home here, not to be disrespectful, but because many of us are visual thinkers and solve problems we can see.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/357-Woodview-Ave-Spartanburg-SC-29306/11829154_zpid/
Instead of speculating on DIYers skills or lack thereof, I'd like to challenge the contractors and small business owners here:

• Would you service this home?
  
• Would you service a home in a community of color?
  
• Would you hire (and mentor) a young unskilled man from this community?
  
• Would you donate work pro-bono to a family in need?
  

Some of you already do. I'd like to challenge all of you to think about how you might be able to do more.
Glenwood Fowler was 82. So born around 1942. 20 years old in 1962.
In 1962, could young Glenwood or his parents have called any contractor in Spartanberg, South Carolina? Or would they have been limited to contractors on their side of the tracks? Were there any contractors on their side of the tracks? There may be long standing reasons why Mr. Fowler and his family DIY. Reasons that a lot of us haven't experienced.
DIYers DIY for many different reasons. I DIY because I like to. I don't really care if some of you think I'm qualified or not. It's my house. Although Mr. Fowler and I had different means and backgrounds, I respect his family's right to DIY, whatever their reasons were. I'm saddened that it may have caused his death, and the death of his girlfriend.
Some here do an outstanding job of sharing their knowledge. For the rest of us, let's try harder to share our knowledge.

SlamDunk

So the question for this forum is:
Is it better to have given an unqualified person proper information or not at all?
Especially if this person was going at it regardless of if you had given them the information or not.



Most of the time, this site provides me an opportunity to learn and sharpen my troubleshooting skills. Occasionally, I get to help some nameless person with something simple. There are probably many techs starting out in their careers reading posts on this wall to learn something they cant learn elsewhere. These are good things!

The best part of this forum is that there are enough pro's, and smart home owners, to keep the dangerous advisors at bay.

Have you ever gone on an automotive forum? Answers are off the wall for any question. The "What motor oil is best?" question is a hundred times more controversial than our "what pipe dope is best".

I think most people who come here for heatinghelp either have the aptitude to resolve their issues safely or learn how to separate good techs from bad. This is good too.

But wait! There's more!

A few pro's pick up customers from here.

So, I think it is better to help and advise people than worry about what they can do to themselves with a little knowledge.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@SlamDunk

Good points. But some things scare me. I was in the electrical Isle at HD one day and a customer was talking to the HD guy. Wanted to hook up an electric stove. Wanted 'stove cable" breaker etc etc. The HD guy was asking him the right question and the customer had no clue what he needed or what he was doing. I figured that out after I heard 2 or 3 sentences.

Was he working in his own house putting him & his family in danger?

Or was it a 2 or 3 family so he could endanger others?

There is DIY and there is DIY. I have nothing against DIY if the person doing it is aware of the hazards involved and has at least some knowledge of what he is doing.

On the other hand, I know of a "service Tech" in the union that worked on an oil burner that was locking out. He couldn't fix it and after a couple of repeat calls he took the primary control off the burner and hot-wired the burner to run.

This is why I have anxiety and can't sleep at night.

mattmia2

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

On the other hand, I know of a "service Tech" in the union that worked on an oil burner that was locking out. He couldn't fix it and after a couple of repeat calls he took the primary control off the burner and hot-wired the burner to run.

The union can't protect you from manslaughter.

SlamDunk

I witness those conversations all the time.   Especially in the plumbing department.   If the big box stores dont lose sleep, why should you? 

When you think about it, if you take away the freedom from people to do things themselves,
regardless of the risks, the economy would suffer.   Lowes, home depot, autozone and all of their suppliers,  would suffer the loss of a revenue stream.   Then, our investments and 401k’s will suffer. 
 

realliveplumber

Truly a tragedy. I cant imagine what the individual who tinkered with the furnace is feeling.

Brings to mind an old saying. "A mans got to know his limitations"

MaxMercy

realliveplumber said:

Truly a tragedy. I cant imagine what the individual who tinkered with the furnace is feeling.

There's always the possibility that the tinkering had nothing to do with the furnace runaway - at least I hope so. Nothing will restore the lives lost, and although at this point it seems unlikely, I'd feel better knowing that it was just some random coincidental accident.

TwoTones

I am one of the DIY homeowners who has completed several successful projects as a direct result of this forum.  I won’t start something unless I completely understand how something works and what needs to be done 100%.  Unfortunately some DIY people do not share this trait.
    That being said, this forum also is usually very good at advising me when I should call a pro. As a result, I have reduced the amount of times I need to call a pro for something very small that wastes everyone’s time and money.  I have also found try professionals as a result of this forum.  

    I hope people continue to offer advice on this forum because  it does help people, and the forum advises them when they are in over their head.  My 2 cents 

SgtMaj

Obviously bypassed thermostat and thermal switch. Or not, but dang that’s sad.

kevinhoffman

This caught my eye , a few years back I was working in a "halfway house" funding was minimal to say the least , our gas furnace quit and I found it needed a thermo couple , the local supply house would not sell it to me for "safety reasons " my argument is that it is more unsafe to bypass it , it is something to think about