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Sizing a gas steam boiler for 3 story multi family house (NYC area)

SC
SC Member Posts: 34
Currently have a PB ECT-06 (installed 2005) converted to gas over 10 years ago with a power flame x4. The PF is giving me some issues (hard to find parts or a new PF burner) and may be just easier to change the burner or possibly the entire boiler. Total Sq ft of the house is 3750 sq ft. there are (13) 4x25-18 section radiators (total). I'm looking for a replacement burner recommendation and/or a boiler recommendation and what size would I need? Currently the Power Flame is set for 338K BTU I think it still is a bit over sized. Air venting is good. All basement and boiler room piping is well insulated. TIA

Comments

  • Hot_water_fan
    Hot_water_fan Member Posts: 1,802
    Sounds huge! Size to radiation. 
    ethicalpaulIronman
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,348
    Power Flame burner are very common. Some common parts are available at the local supply houses. For other parts you need to find out from PF or their rep where to go.

    Go on the PF web site and find the rep for your area and contact them. They should be able to get you what you need.
    SC
  • SC
    SC Member Posts: 34
    My calculation for the (13) 4x25-18 section radiators (total) 468 sq ft x 1.5 x 240=168480 BTUs ? Seems low compared to what is currently there. Do I use any additional calculation for riser pipes that heat the bathroom or living rooms (which do not have radiators).
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,348
    No don't add anything for the rises. This is allowed for in the piping and pick up load
    ethicalpaulMad Dog_2SCSTEAM DOCTOR
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,707
    SC said:
    My calculation for the (13) 4x25-18 section radiators (total) 468 sq ft x 1.5 x 240=168480 BTUs ? Seems low compared to what is currently there. Do I use any additional calculation for riser pipes that heat the bathroom or living rooms (which do not have radiators).
    No

    You have 468, use that number and go find the boiler that most closely matches that on the manufacturers rating. You are comically oversized now which is common.

    If you stick with the peerless line you’d need a 63-04 rated for 458, which is well within reason for your 468 rating. Next size up 63-05L rated for 533 would be overkill in my opinion and do no good except building unnecessary pressure.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    ethicalpaulIronmanSTEAM DOCTORSC
  • SC
    SC Member Posts: 34
    Thank you very much. I'm told PB (push nipples) is a better choice over WM & Burnham
    Mad Dog_2STEAM DOCTOR
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,943
    Anything is better than Burnham. Don't necessarily agree about WM. I have Zero gasket failures. Accurately one and that was close to an original. That boiler far out lasted many other boilers that I have seen. 
    Mad Dog_2
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 22,952
    Nothing wrong with Weil;-McClain -- provided it's put together correctly. It's all in the installation.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • realliveplumber
    realliveplumber Member Posts: 353
    edited December 2023
    Weil Mclains quality, or lack of it, is start to show.

    10 year old CGi leaked at the orings between the sections. Block was discontinued, they gave me a measly credit for the block. The replacement boiler had an out of balance inducer out of the box. No inducer in stock anywhere. Waited 3 days for a new inducer that was pulled off of the assembly line.

    Have a 4 year old Ultra that the bottom of the block, the cast in nipple where the condensate drain attaches, rotted away. Waited 2 weeks for a new block.

    They are leaving people without heat due to not having parts available.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,353
    The Burnham SteamMax is an excellent boiler, maybe the best gas steam boiler around.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    SC
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,943
    Weil Mclains quality, or lack of it, is start to show. 10 year old CGi leaked at the orings between the sections. Block was discontinued, they gave me a measly credit for the block. The replacement boiler had an out of balance inducer out of the box. No inducer in stock anywhere. Waited 3 days for a new inducer that was pulled off of the assembly line. Have a 4 year old Ultra that the bottom of the block, the cast in nipple where the condensate drain attaches, rotted away. Waited 2 weeks for a new block. They are leaving people without heat due to not having parts available.
    My experience is primarily with the steam EG boilers. Life expectancy easily 30+ years. 
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,943
    Ironman said:
    The Burnham SteamMax is an excellent boiler, maybe the best gas steam boiler around.

    Time will tell. I find that the Independence has a ridiculously short life expectancy. Why? Maybe poor casting? They claim it's because of heat buildup in top of boiler, caused by unnecessary pins on top. And uneven steaming, due to boiler tappings in end sections. The question on their theory, is that all gas steam boilers (residential) are designed the exact same way and none of them suffer from the same low life expectancies. In my travels, the Independence, hands down, has shortest life expectancy (residential gas steam). I am primarily seeing WM eg and Burnham independence with a smattering of other makes and models. I would not want my customers to be the guinea pigs for Burnham, in light of Burnham's less than stellar track record. 
    ethicalpaul
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,753
    I'm sorry some of you have had bad experience with Burnham. I have been a Burnham man for close to 40 years..I've had two V-8 Failures 4 yrs after installation one town over with within 3 months of eachother. Our Venco Sales rep Jake Greenwood sent out  (RIP)  the awesome Chris Mc Corvey.  He got me two replacement Megasteams. I've had zero Failures on the Independence Series...

    WM had massive issues in late 1980s-1990s with leaking rubber gaskets.  They stood by their installers. Another great company  Peerless too.  I have installed them all many times.  I still prefer Burnham because they still use the steel push nipples.  Mad Dog 🐕 
    Ironman
  • SC
    SC Member Posts: 34
    Atmospheric boiler or power burner? I know atmospheric is much easier to diagnosis/repair. "They" say power burners are more efficient (which is not really a big concern to me).
  • STEAM DOCTOR
    STEAM DOCTOR Member Posts: 1,943
    edited December 2023
    Definitely atmospheric. Parts are off the shelf universal. Power burners are great but not many guys know how to service them and parts are not necessarily available.