Burnham Oil Burner creating tons of soot

irishrosepotter

My Burnham Oil Burner was installed January 2022 and is failing due to a huge buildup of soot in the firing chamber. Part of the Baffles disintegrated from the heat. First night the unit was turned on after installation tons of black smoke started coming out of the unit and shut down. Installer came back and cleaned out the unit and restarted it. Heat worked throughout the rest of the heating season. In April 2022 I had a new Oil tank and fuel line installed by my Oil company who was not the original Burner installer. They did not do a combustion test on the unit. Heating season September 2022 though March 2023 occurred with no issues. During the summer of 2023 we had a lot of rain and I do not have chimney covers on my chimney and flue and a lot of rain came down the chimney and flue causing a lot of black rain water to leak out of the flue clean out door and stained the wall and basement floor. I did not open flue clean out door but presumed it was sooty rain coming down the flue. I scheduled a chimney and flue cleaning a couple of months later in September 2023. Chimney cleaner found a lot of soot buildup in the Flue. In July 2023, I had a Mass Save free Energy Audit done and they found a high level of Carbon Monoxide being vented out the boiler up the flue and suggested I have the installer check the furnace and lower the carbon Monoxide. I called them and a tech came in, said he made an adjustment on the unit and that the Carbon Monoxide reading was lowered and literally left after five minutes. I was happy the Carbon Monoxide was at a safe level. Now comes the heating season and I turn the heat on and the burner is sounding a bit rough the first couple of weeks and then shut down completely with a hard lockout. The fun begins. I call my fuel company thinking perhaps I have run out of fuel. They come by fill my tank revealing I had plenty of oil so the Tech comes in to look at the Boiler. Its filled with soot and the stainless steel collar that is part of the baffle kit has completely disintegrated. He opens the burner and we see the air inlet is completely open all the way. Apparently that was the adjustment the previous tech had made. Added more air to decrease the carbon monoxide levels. The tech suggests I call back the installer and have them figure out why the unit isn't running properly and have them talk to the manufacturer. I obviously need a replacement Baffle kit and a complete clean out. Meanwhile temperatures are dipping and we are seeing 30 degrees overnight and I have no heat. Next day I call the installer and tell him what is going on and that I want someone to come look at this at no cost. They come by that evening. First thing they say on seeing my new oil tank is oh when was that installed and did they reprogram the burner after installation. It must be their fault that the burner wasn't running properly. And I am like ok here we go with the finger pointing. I call the fuel company who installed the tank and asked them if they ran a combustion analysis after installing the tank and line and they say no that is not something we do when replacing oil tanks. Installer tells me he tweaked the unit based on the old oil tank and fuel line and the unit would need different settings with the new line and tank. Bottom line neither party feels they are responsible and I still have no heat and have found out from Burnham that the lead time for a new baffle kit is 8 - 10 days since they don't stock the item and it has to be fabricated. How is that even possible. Every time a unit fails and needs a new baffle kit the customer has to wait 8 - 10 days for a replacement part? In the middle of winter when pipes can freeze and people need heat? How is that business model sustainable. I am flabbergasted. I have to go with the installer since they hold the warranty on the unit and I can't have someone else touching the boiler that they can then blame the problem on. I am not happy but have no options at this point. I need to get the heat working and I still feel the unit is faulty and cleaning and replacing the baffles may not ultimately be the solution. So any advice you can give me as I head into the next phase of getting this unit fixed and hopefully up and running. Is the installer correct that the unit should have been adjusted once a new tank was installed? Does this sound like a bad installation or do these units sometimes have issues holding their set points and start having combustion issues? Any options for suppliers who may actually have a baffle kit on their shelf? The unit is a Burnham MPO-IQ115B. Thanks for reading....

SuperTech

The new oil tank should not change the combustion.  Best thing you can do is find a competent technician who is familiar with combustion analysis. I wouldn't let anyone who you mentioned in your post anywhere near your boiler.  They are clearly incompetent.  

Unless the next technician arrives at your door with a digital combustion analyzer don't bother letting him in. The boiler needs to be cleaned and repaired, the draft set to the manufacturers over fire specifications and the burner tuned to a true zero smoke.  They should also double check anything the previous idiots touched. This would be fairly simple to resolve for a technician with the correct tools and knowledge. 

Where are you located? Which Burnham boiler? It sounds like an MPO 

Jamie Hall

Two comments -- no pricing, please. It's one of our few rules.

The other is that the reason replacement baffles aren't a stock item is that they rarely need replacement -- unless someone has really messed up the combustion. Which seems to be possible in your description, and wouldn't be a warranty item for the boiler manufacturer.

I wonder if you even have the right nozzle in there... or the right pressure setting on the pump.... or .... or. It may take some extensive trouble shooting to get things right again.

One thing, though -- at least you can rest assured that the new oil tank has nothing to do with it, assuming that it was filled with the correct oil for your system (#2 fuel oil).

Big Ed_4

Is the boiler in a closet or walled in ?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Call the owner of the installing contractor and speak with him directly (don't talk with the service manager or anyone else). Tell him you want the boiler cleaned adjusted and fixed to run properly. If it's not fixed promptly tell him you are calling Burnham, the supply house where the boiler was sold and your lawyer.

And no a contractor that installs the tank would not do a combustion test. That is just a lie to get them out of trouble.

Then post the city and state you are located in someone may have a recommendation..

irishrosepotter

Thank you everyone for posting. I am in Westminster Massachusetts if anyone has recommendations for a tech who can actually fix my boiler. I am still without heat!!

The Boiler is an MPO-115B

Robert O'Brien

MPO can run without baffles, albeit at a slightly reduced efficiency. No need to freeze

Jamie Hall

Try Charles Garrity -- @Charlie from wmass or Ryan @New England SteamWorks .

SuperTech

I figured it was an MPO,  yes it can run without the baffles. Sometimes I have to remove them to get the over fire draft in the correct range. You can't go wrong with either of the companies recommended above, if they can't accommodate you just make sure whoever does know how to properly use combustion analysis equipment. 

irishrosepotter

Update. Its now Jan 2nd and still no working boiler. US Boiler took 4 weeks to ship the Baffle Kit. Brought in a new company to fix it and they had a hard time removing the old baffles since they had welded in place from the high heat. Was able to exchange two of the four, cleaned the entire unit and smoke stack and reset everything to according to manufacturers specs. Tech called both Burnham and Beckett to double verify the settings were good. Unit is still creating soot. 8 hours of working on it and the tech doesn't know why its still burning incorrectly and creating soot.

My questions:
1. Does anyone know who the residential Burnham Rep and Beckett Rep is for Central Massachusetts?
2. Is it possible this is just a problem child model and has issues
3. Have others run into this problem before?

We are expecting colder weather now so its getting critical. I want the manufacturers to look at the unit before I scrap it and get a new set up.

pecmsg

1-22 until 1-24 is 2 years. Please say it’s been serviced 2 times since install. 

Combustion analysis #’s will tell a lot. 

irishrosepotter

July 2023 tech was called in but failed to tell me it was full of soot and it hasn't been working this heating season Oct 2023 - Jan 2024

KC_Jones

Point of clarification. You say they set it to spec, but did they use a combustion analyzer to measure the actual combustion numbers, or just set things by a manual? 

Soot is poor combustion that can be measured with an analyzer then the tech is supposed to make adjustments until the combustion numbers are in line with what is right. It sounds like that isn’t being done.

If they don’t have an analyzer and don’t know how to diagnose they shouldn’t even start working on the equipment. 

EBEBRATT-Ed

Burnham MFG Rep is: Urell 1-617-923-9500 Boston Area

RW Beckett rep: Rick Yahoub 1-781-500-1673

Croteau Plumbing in Fitchburg used to have a good oil guy but that was years ago. You might try them if they are still in business.

irishrosepotter

EBEBRATT-ed Thank you so much for this information!! I will contact them tomorrow.

Just checked and Rick Yahoub is with Becket Pumps not Burners......

irishrosepotter

KC Jones "You say they set it to spec, but did they use a combustion analyzer to measure the actual combustion numbers, or just set things by a manual?" He first set them to spec and then he used the analyzer and he spoke to Burnham and Beckett and still the soot continued. Thanks for posting. Hopefully we can get the Reps out to look at it.

Steamhead

irishrosepotter said:

KC Jones "You say they set it to spec, but did they use a combustion analyzer to measure the actual combustion numbers, or just set things by a manual?" He first set them to spec and then he used the analyzer and he spoke to Burnham and Beckett and still the soot continued. Thanks for posting. Hopefully we can get the Reps out to look at it.

Did they do a smoke test in addition to tuning with the analyzer?

EdTheHeaterMan

I just went here https://www.usboiler.net/contact.html and posted this


I wonder if enough of the regulars here did the same, If US Boiler might be interested is helping sooner than later.

Or do they even read this stuff

Jamie Hall

Your problem is neither the burner nor the boiler. It is in setting the draught and the air correctly -- assuming that the oil pressure and the nozzle and burner cone are correct. So -- start off by finding a tech. with the right test equipment and the knowledge to use it. Then have him or her go through the whole show -- correct nozzle, correct setting in the burner, correct oil pressure, set the air and draught to get low smoke. May take some time...

MikeAmann

Did you check the chimney for blockage?

STEVEusaPA

I’d really start over with all the settings and parameters, especially insertion depth, z dimension, and overfire draft. 1/4” on the z is the difference between clean and soot city.
I have a first gen MPO. Set up perfectly it hasn’t been cleaned in 4 years, and doesn’t need it.

EBEBRATT-Ed

We know some of the good manufacturers monitor this site. Others may not care.

@irishrosepotter

Did the original installer take out a permit for the oil installation as required with the local fire dept.???

There are several reasons for asking one of them is because they have to submit a written copy of the Combustion test to the Fire dept and that the job has been tested and is complete to run.

RW Beckett phone # is 866-232-5388 says for contractors and technicians only. Homeowners are supposed to call there local heating professional.


Certainly, possible that the original installer did not do something right either in the installation or the set up and either did not do a combustion test or faked one.

It is also possible (but not likely) that the mfg. stuck the wrong burner on the boiler or that some burner part is wrong or missing.

Either way a decent installer would have caught that.

irishrosepotter

EdTheHeaterMan - Wow thank you so much for posting that to them! I appreciate the support.

irishrosepotter

"MikeAmann">Did you check the chimney for blockage? Yes I had the chimney professionally cleaned back in November when this all started. The flue to the chimney has also been cleaned. No blockage...

irishrosepotter

EBEBRATT-Ed

"Did the original installer take out a permit for the oil installation as required with the local fire dept.??? " yes they did pull a permit and the fire department came out and did a visual inspection. Great idea to get a copy of the original Combustion test. I know the first night it ran tons of black smoke started coming out and I had to shut it down. The installer came out the next say and had to clean all the soot out. Not sure what happened after that but the system ran.

irishrosepotter

EBEBRATT-Ed
"It is also possible (but not likely) that the mfg. stuck the wrong burner on the boiler or that some burner part is wrong or missing."
Interesting you said this because when the tech was on the phone with the Burnham tech, the Burnham tech said he wouldn't have speced the burner I have with that boiler but then back peddled a bit and said I guess its ok. I am amazed at how much the consumer is at the mercy of these HVAC companies. I unfortunately relied on their recommendation of burners. I did get several quotes from different companies but what did I know about which boilers and burners are better. I am kicking myself for not learning more about them before having this work done. But damn I am retired, single woman who unfortunately didn't get my HVAC license before ordering a new heating system. I am hoping the manufacturers will step in and help cause my head is spinning at this point and New England is supposed to get hit with a major snow storm this weekend.

Thank you all for your input.

Steamhead

An industry educator I respect greatly would say that even if something comes wrong from the factory, supply house or similar place, he would still fault the installer.

Why? Because they didn't check it! (Thanks, @Firedragon !)

@irishrosepotter , you need to get someone in there who can give you much more than excuses.

irishrosepotter

Jamie Hall

"It is in setting the draught and the air correctly -- assuming that the oil pressure and the nozzle and burner cone are correct. So -- start off by finding a tech. with the right test equipment and the knowledge to use it. Then have him or her go through the whole show -- correct nozzle, correct setting in the burner, correct oil pressure, set the air and draught to get low smoke"

The tech today did all this. he cleaned it all, verified and changed the nozzle, corrected the settings, oil pressure was good, new oil tank and oil no gunk in the line, the whole deal several times....just couldn't get it to stop sooting...

irishrosepotter

"Steamhead">An industry educator I respect greatly would say that even if something comes wrong from the factory, supply house or similar place, he would still fault the installer.

Why? Because they didn't check it! (Thanks, @Firedragon !)

@irishrosepotter , you need to get someone in there who can give you much more than excuses.

I agree but who is that person???? Thats why I am trying to get the manufacturers involved. This whole thing is making me crazy......lol and yes definitely the installer sucked and should be doing the right thing but isn't so had to move on.

ethicalpaul

the Burnham tech said he wouldn't have speced the burner I have with that boiler but then back peddled a bit and said I guess its ok

Sometimes you can catch someone speaking truth before they snap out of it and go back to covering for their possibly-not-so-competent industry brethren. Good luck getting it on paper though.

Jamie Hall

On getting the manufacturer involved. May I humbly point out that they build the machines -- but they do not install or maintain them unless they are Tesla cars. They -- and you -- are dependent on competent, careful installers and maintainers. This is true for everything from coffeepots to 787 airplanes.

Even if you were to get a manufacturer really involved -- even the best of them (and there are some really good companies out there), they will still be dependent ultimately on the guy or gal spinning wrenches in your basement.

It is possible that the particular burner/boiler/chimney combination which you have simply won't work. It does happen, but it's rare. In which case, someone should be willing to tell you that, and tell you what you need to do. It won't be free.

irishrosepotter

"Jamie Hall">On getting the manufacturer involved. May I humbly point out that they build the machines -- but they do not install or maintain them unless they are Tesla cars. They -- and you -- are dependent on competent, careful installers and maintainers. This is true for everything from coffeepots to 787 airplanes.

Even if you were to get a manufacturer really involved -- even the best of them (and there are some really good companies out there), they will still be dependent ultimately on the guy or gal spinning wrenches in your basement.

It is possible that the particular burner/boiler/chimney combination which you have simply won't work. It does happen, but it's rare. In which case, someone should be willing to tell you that, and tell you what you need to do. It won't be free."

If the coffeepot has a manufacturer's defect no matter who is making the coffee its going to leak all over the counter.

I am not looking to save money I am looking to get heat and answers to why this unit is not working properly. Three HVAC companies have been unable to troubleshoot this. They can't all be incompetent. I have Beckett coming on Monday (I am trying to expedite and have him come in sooner and I am waiting on a date from the Burnham Rep I just spoke to.)

EBEBRATT-Ed

@irishrosepotter maybe you can get the Beckett rep and Burnham rep to colaborate. You probably only need one of them.

When boiler and burner mfgs pick a burner or several burners to use with a particular boiler usually one of them is responsible for testing. At this point we don't know who that was.

The burner manufacturers want the boiler MGF to pick their burner so they are usually anxious to do the testing.

Burnham and other boiler MFGs may offer a particular boiler with a Beckett, Carlin or Reillo Burners. (they are the most common)

They are all good burners but some installer specialize in using the burners they like.

In my case I wouldn't use a Riello................too many specialized parts but that is JMHO


Whomever shows up from Beckett or Burnham they need to be technicians not salesmen.


It would not be the first time a manufactured package did not work. I have run into this several times.

irishrosepotter

@EBEBRATT-Ed "@irishrosepotter maybe you can get the Beckett rep and Burnham rep to collaborate. You probably only need one of them."

Yes you are correct. Only the Beckett Rep will be coming over on Monday morning rather than both of them coming over. So I am SOL till Monday at the minimum.

Jamie Hall

I think all I am really suggesting is... try "we have a problem, let's see what we can do to fix it" rather than "you screwed up. Fix it".

SuperTech

The only thing I can say is that I work on several MPO boilers with AFGs and I don't ever have this problem.  It's gotta be something related to poor combustion setup. It shouldn't be too difficult to figure out if you have the right tech on site, but without being there in person I can't do much to assist you from here.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I have had sever instances with 'factory Packages" Both of these were several years ago.

One was an HB Smith series 19 with the exact Power Flame oil burner specified for the boiler. This burner made soot on 1/2 the boiler. So if you split the boiler in half lengthwise the left side was soot and the right side was clean.

The burner was removed from the boiler. The refractory was inspected for impingement. Every part of the burner was checked against the factory specs, blower wheel, choke ring, diffuser, nozzles (different ones tried, pump pressure etc. Everything that could possibly be checked was checked.

I don't remember which nozzle was originally specified it was a bypass nozzle and was either a 60 or 80 degree. We were the installing contractor. At this time we were not the Power Flame rep but had been for the previous 10 years.

Finally in desperation we substituted a 45 degree bypass nozzle and that fixed the problem.

We had 0 help from Power Flame or Smith on this "we have never seen this problem before Yada, Yada"

We spent and ate a tremendous amount of labor on this job.


The second job was an air force base with a Weil McLain/Carlin factory package. We did not install this and were hired to do the start up. We check the burner against the factory specs and everything matched.

No amount of work would make this burn right. Everything was checked and was at factory spec. We called in Carlin who made some changes to the burner that fixed it. It was so long ago I don't recall the problem.

The 3rd job were Power Flame burners installed in Buderus boilers (factory package) in some schools in the Boston area. These were combination gas/oil boilers.

Again, we did not install these we were hired to do the start up. On gas they were fine. On oil high fire was ok but low fire was disgusting. Oil fire was so awful that I disconnected the oil solenoid valves so they could not run oil. I talked with the burner mfg and asked "who did the testing" on this package and got some evasive answers.

We decided to leave oil disconnected and to just let the problem smolder to smoke out whose problem it was as it sure was not ours.

After 6 months we were told it was decided to remove the baffles in the boiler 'too much back pressure" and to reconnect the oil and try it. Apparently that was the fix. I never saw the job.

Ok so the point is I don't trust the MFGs to do the proper testing before they send the equipment into the field. If you do blindly accept what they tell you they will lead you astray.

The above are commercial jobs. Maybe they are more diligent with residential equipment.


Take even a residential boiler that is made in say 3,4,5 and 6 sections

Now test that boiler with a Beckett, Carlin and Riello burners. 4 different boilers with 3 different burners is 12 different boilers to test.

Do you think the MFGs are really doing this?

Do you really think they are doing this on commercial jobs when they have more than 4 sections and more than 3 different burners plus testing with gas burners, natural gas and propane with straight gas burner and combination gas/oil burners.

They combinations are almost endless and I know this testing does not always get done. Most who have done residential work will probably not believe this and that is fine. But my experience has proven otherwise.

The point is the installer may have done a bad job; he may not have set the burner up properly. There may be a job site condition like a chimney problem or an oil issue or a combustion air problem.

But factory problems (though rare) are not nonexistent and do exist.

captainco

Do you ever notice that when people say the combustion numbers look good they never list them. Draft. smoke, CO(lightoff, Run, Shutdown), O2, Flue Temp

irishrosepotter

@captainco Do you ever notice that when people say the combustion numbers look good they never list them. Draft. smoke, CO(lightoff, Run, Shutdown), O2, Flue Temp

These are the numbers off the workorder.....
replaced spinon oil filter and . 65/45W nozzle
-adjusted pump pressure from 180psi to 150psi according to Beckett technical support but Burnham technical support has the pump pressure at 180psi
-adjusted air settings to Beckett OEM specifications
-draft in stack -.05
-with either pump pressure, burner is not operating properly

KC_Jones

irishrosepotter said:

@captainco Do you ever notice that when people say the combustion numbers look good they never list them. Draft. smoke, CO(lightoff, Run, Shutdown), O2, Flue Temp

These are the numbers off the workorder.....
replaced spinon oil filter and . 65/45W nozzle
-adjusted pump pressure from 180psi to 150psi according to Beckett technical support but Burnham technical support has the pump pressure at 180psi
-adjusted air settings to Beckett OEM specifications
-draft in stack -.05
-with either pump pressure, burner is not operating properly

And none of that is the numbers from the combustion analyzer. The analyzer would show the improper combustion to the tech, and then they make burner adjustments based on what the combustion analyzer is showing. The factory settings are just a starting point, and unless the world is perfect, many times won't result in proper combustion.

Do you have the printout from the combustion analyzer? I'm guessing no. If not, all that work order says to me is they did not do their job correctly.

Jamie Hall

The key to that list of settings is "adjust air settings to Beckett OEM specifications". That will -- with either pump pressure -- allow the burner to fire. But -- there is no guarantee from Burnham or anyone else -- that that will be the correct setting. Odds are it's way rich. You need the instruments...

On the nozzle and pressure. The nozzle will flow different oil volumes at different pressures (again, you need the instruments to set the air differently for each one). Perhaps more important, you will get slightly different flame patterns. Someone needs to take a good close look (one of the few times when the Mark 1 eyeball is really useful) to make sure that the pattern doesn't have any flame impingement anywhere in the firebox. If it does, you need a different pattern or different pressure -- more likely the former.

And I'm not even an experienced tech. Far from it. Get someone in there who is!