Boiler not firing

slipjohn1

Hey. So I'm having an issue and I can't find an answer with Google. I tried to find the answer myself before asking, but nothing answers my question. I just keep finding the same generic answers like is it switched on, is there fuel etc.

My problem is my boiler won't fire on it's own. About a week ago I rebuilt the burn chamber and the boiler was working fine for a week. It even felt like maybe it was working more efficiently since the insulation inside was completely destroyed. Then one day it turned off and wouldn't come back on. I can hit the reset and it will come on, but once it shuts down it doesn't come back on. I went and looked at it and checked the expansion tank and got water from the air valve. I know this is bad so I replaced the tank and tried to purge the system of any air. I got only water, no air came out. As soon as I hit the switch the boiler should have come back on since it was calling for heat, but it only came on when I hit the reset switch. I stayed and watched it and the little switch on the aquastat closed and the one on the side(not sure what these are called) stayed open. Then the boiler shut down and again, didn't come back on. I went down later and hit the reset switch and it fired right up. It was off all night.

I went down this morning and both of those little switches, on the aquastat and the one on the side were open. I could hear a humming sound, but nothing was running. I flicked the boiler switch off and the two small switches closed, I switched it back on and they opened and the humming came back, but it didn't fire. I hit the reset switch and it started right up.

The pressure seems to stay at about 20psi. Last night while I was watching it it went up to about 30 when it shut off. This is kind of sudden so I'm not sure what could be wrong. I honestly don't know much about how they work. When I have a problem I usually try to solve it by finding answers online, but I can't seem to zero in on this issue.

My boiler is a Peerless WB 3 if that matters. It has two zones. It has two circulator pumps, but doesn't have zone switches.

Anyone have an idea? I'm continuing my search for an answer, but keep finding the same answers as I stated above. Thanks for any help

Rich

Jamie Hall

Is this oil fired? I'm guessing that it is -- and what you are talking about sounds like a problem with the burner control and ignitor. Much as I myself enjoy and feel competent in most phases of building maintenance, there is one thing I won't touch; burners. I would suggest that you find a really good oil burner technician and get him out there to work on the problem.

HVACNUT

You need a competent oil tech. Unfortunately you don't have the instruments to professionally diagnose, repair, and test. It's not DIY.
And stop hitting the reset button. 

slipjohn1

HVACNUT said:

You need a competent oil tech. Unfortunately you don't have the instruments to professionally diagnose, repair, and test. It's not DIY.
And stop hitting the reset button. 

Why stop hitting the rest button? My guess is this is electrical which would require a multimeter, that's not that high tech.

Jamie Hall

Every time the burner starts and tries to ignite and doesn't, it also squirts a certain amount of oil into the combustion chamber (or it should -- that may be the problem). Every time you hit the reset button it also squirts oil into the chamber. Now perhaps one squirt won't matter. Much. Which is why one push on the button is acceptable as an emergency measure. It is NOT acceptable as a more or less normal practice. If too much oil builds up in the chamber and then manages to ignite, you have just created a primitive, but effective, fuel/air bomb. May just damage the boiler. Might flatten the house, too.

slipjohn1

Jamie Hall said:

Every time the burner starts and tries to ignite and doesn't, it also squirts a certain amount of oil into the combustion chamber (or it should -- that may be the problem). Every time you hit the reset button it also squirts oil into the chamber. Now perhaps one squirt won't matter. Much. Which is why one push on the button is acceptable as an emergency measure. It is NOT acceptable as a more or less normal practice. If too much oil builds up in the chamber and then manages to ignite, you have just created a primitive, but effective, fuel/air bomb. May just damage the boiler. Might flatten the house, too.

OK. I knew that. You may not have read my original post properly. When I hit reset the boiler fires. It runs for a reasonable amount of time, maybe 15-20 minutes or so and heats up. It works as it should when I hit reset. Once it shuts down is where I have the problem, it doesn't start back up on it's own. Sorry for the misunderstanding. The boiler fires when I hit reset and stays running so it's not filling up with oil.

SuperTech

It's not running properly. You don't have the tools, knowledge or experience to perform this work safely. Do yourself and everyone around you a favor and call a professional oil service provider. 

pecmsg

slipjohn1 said:

Jamie Hall said:

Every time the burner starts and tries to ignite and doesn't, it also squirts a certain amount of oil into the combustion chamber (or it should -- that may be the problem). Every time you hit the reset button it also squirts oil into the chamber. Now perhaps one squirt won't matter. Much. Which is why one push on the button is acceptable as an emergency measure. It is NOT acceptable as a more or less normal practice. If too much oil builds up in the chamber and then manages to ignite, you have just created a primitive, but effective, fuel/air bomb. May just damage the boiler. Might flatten the house, too.

OK. I knew that. You may not have read my original post properly. When I hit reset the boiler fires. It runs for a reasonable amount of time, maybe 15-20 minutes or so and heats up. It works as it should when I hit reset. Once it shuts down is where I have the problem, it doesn't start back up on it's own. Sorry for the misunderstanding. The boiler fires when I hit reset and stays running so it's not filling up with oil.

Nozzle size?
Pump Pressure?
Combustion Analyses?
"My Guess is its electrical" Thats only a guess nothing to base it on!

A good tech knows their limitations.

slipjohn1

OK, thanks for all the "help". I can see there are no ideas to be had. I'm quite capable and I'm not gonna blow myself up. I have been maintaining my boiler for over 20 years. I just never ran into this problem. I don't have the money to hire someone to come out, they charge way too much. I'll figure it out. thanks

MaxMercy

slipjohn1 said:

OK, thanks for all the "help". I can see there are no ideas to be had.

The problem is that you haven't provided much beyond that it starts on reset. That's like posting on a car forum and saying the engine doesn't start - what can it be?

For more help, you need to verify the ignition transformer performance, cleancut solenoid clicking or not, are the points set properly, is your pump pressure normal and steady over time, what the combustion numbers are when it actually is running, cad cell resistance during burn, will it re-start after a short run or is the shutdown following a long burn, etc.

pecmsg

slipjohn1 said:

OK, thanks for all the "help". I can see there are no ideas to be had. I'm quite capable and I'm not gonna blow myself up. I have been maintaining my boiler for over 20 years. I just never ran into this problem. I don't have the money to hire someone to come out, they charge way too much. I'll figure it out. thanks

slipjohn1

MaxMercy said:

slipjohn1 said:

OK, thanks for all the "help". I can see there are no ideas to be had.

The problem is that you haven't provided much beyond that it starts on reset. That's like posting on a car forum and saying the engine doesn't start - what can it be?

For more help, you need to verify the ignition transformer performance, cleancut solenoid clicking or not, are the points set properly, is your pump pressure normal and steady over time, what the combustion numbers are when it actually is running, cad cell resistance during burn, will it re-start after a short run or is the shutdown following a long burn, etc.

If I knew all that I probably wouldn't be looking for help lol. I guess I'll look into all that stuff and figure out how to do it. I honestly thought someone would say check this or check that like they would on a car forum. There are lots of videos out there, I'm sure I can learn a few things. Thanks

pecmsg

Your now to the point where tools and knowledge are required!

EBEBRATT-Ed

@slipjohn1

Your boiler is going off on safety. You may have other issues as well.

It could be a weak ignition transformer; it could be improperly set ignitors or cracked ignitors. It could be a plugged oil filter, plugged nozzle, plugged oil pump filter, or plugged oil line,

It could be a defective primary control or a bad cad cell or one that is not "seeing" the fire.

As you can see there are a multitude of reasons the burner can fail to light. In addition to that the burner should be combustion tested.

You need special tools to perform the required testing or just keep changing parts maybe you will get lucky but that usually does not solve the problem.

MaxMercy

slipjohn1 said:

MaxMercy said:

slipjohn1 said:

OK, thanks for all the "help". I can see there are no ideas to be had.

The problem is that you haven't provided much beyond that it starts on reset. That's like posting on a car forum and saying the engine doesn't start - what can it be?

For more help, you need to verify the ignition transformer performance, cleancut solenoid clicking or not, are the points set properly, is your pump pressure normal and steady over time, what the combustion numbers are when it actually is running, cad cell resistance during burn, will it re-start after a short run or is the shutdown following a long burn, etc.

If I knew all that I probably wouldn't be looking for help lol. I guess I'll look into all that stuff and figure out how to do it. I honestly thought someone would say check this or check that like they would on a car forum. There are lots of videos out there, I'm sure I can learn a few things. Thanks

There are a LOT of reasons the burner locks out on safety. Oil burners are reliable but they have many causes of safety lockouts for, well, safety. If we knew what area caused the shutdown, we can narrow down its cause. For instance, an ignition issue could be bad transformer, bad controller, points failure or out of adjustment, cad cell, etc. Just too many things.

Using your car forum analogy, if you posted your engine was failing to start but didn't give any other information, the advice you get would be the same - is the engine cranking slow, at all? Does it have ignition? Did you "noid" the injectors? Have you checked pressure at the fuel rail?

To get specific advice you need to provide at least some clue. We could give you all sorts of advice about ignition but what if the lockout isn't ignition but fuel related? Pump pressure OK? Air in the pump at at start? Clean cut oil solenoid being activated during ignition trial period?

Oil burners certainly aren't rocket science and you can definitely learn about them. The web is filled with knowledge, starting with your burner's manufacturer. Go to Beckett, Riello, Carlin, etc. and download the manuals.

Once you pin down the area of the lockout, you can fix it, or at least ask advice for you particular lockout issue.

But after you get it repaired, have the combustion tested and adjusted for safety and efficiency.

HVACNUT

So you reset it and it runs. Presumably it runs the whole cycle to limit, at which point the burner turns off. Is that correct? Then you need to reset it again to start it?
What primary control (reset button)?
Where is the oil tank?
1 pipe or 2 pipe oil lines?
What make and model boiler?
What make and model burner?

fueloilrich631

slipjohn1 said:

OK, thanks for all the "help". I can see there are no ideas to be had. I'm quite capable and I'm not gonna blow myself up. I have been maintaining my boiler for over 20 years. I just never ran into this problem. I don't have the money to hire someone to come out, they charge way too much. I'll figure it out. thanks

Do you have pictures for starters so we can see what we are looking at?
what are cad cell ohms, motor amps starting and running, pump pressure, etc etc

Grallert

Does it smoke when it starts? Even a little? Are you resetting the primary control or the motor overload?

fueloilrich631

slipjohn1 said:

OK, thanks for all the "help". I can see there are no ideas to be had. I'm quite capable and I'm not gonna blow myself up. I have been maintaining my boiler for over 20 years. I just never ran into this problem. I don't have the money to hire someone to come out, they charge way too much. I'll figure it out. thanks

Well your burner isn't lighting and you're checking things that have nothing to do with fuel ignition. That could lead people to believe you may not be as competent as you think you are. I don't think anybody would be wrong to think that.
If the fuel lights but goes off on safety any way, its possible the cad cell isn't sensing flame. Run an ohms test on it. It could also be a bad motor or primary control. I have also seen where the fuel ignites but is over aired to the point that it wont complete the cad cell circuit and it trips off on safety