Cure In Place Pipe

SlamDunk

What is The Wall's opinion on CIPP?

Jamie Hall

For what purpose? I have spec;d and used it a number of times for sewer (both sanitary and storm) rehabilitation a number of times, and it is an excellent approach -- sometimes. Other times I've used other techniques. Like anything else using plastics, the people doing it have to know what they are doing.

SlamDunk

I have a 90 year old , 4", soil pipe sewer line about 110' long to city sewer. I would like to get it lined to get more life out of it and not dig a trench that long in the future.

pecmsg

SlamDunk said:

I have a 90 year old , 4", soil pipe sewer line about 110' long to city sewer. I would like to get it lined to get more life out of it and not dig a trench that long in the future.

Dig it up and replace it. It’s had a good run, put it to rest!

SlamDunk

Yikes! I know how destructive that would be. I would hate to see what it would cost...

Why wouldnt you suggest sending a camera thru first?

Jamie Hall

SlamDunk said:

Yikes! I know how destructive that would be. I would hate to see what it would cost...

Why wouldnt you suggest sending a camera thru first?

I would most assuredly send a camera through it first. Whatever you finally decide to do. It may be a good candidate for CIPP, provided it is still in good alignment -- although it is a little small (the finished CIPP has much better flow characteristics, so the loss of size isn't a problem). It might also, though, be a candidate for repair by pipe bursting (a sort of decent reference is here; https://plumbingnav.com/plumbing/what-is-pipe-bursting/ ) , particularly if the alignment is poor or there are collapsed sections. I've used that technique too, with very good results.

Dig it up is a simple approach, of course, but may not be any cheaper -- and if there are any roads or trees or anything of that sort, it is much more problematic, if not more expensive.

leonz

A lot of it is going to depend on how deep the sewer line is and whether the sewer pipe in question has to be dug up at the street to access the end of the pipe for the CIPP or the pipe bursting or if it terminates in a manhole at the street.

There are contractors that do all the work including pipe inspections with wheeled robot cameras and cable snake cameras, clear sewers and also line them with CIPP felt using either steam or light to cure the CIPP and they send a robot back into the new pipe to open lateral connections as well as pipe bursting.

Pipe bursting requires 2 shallow pits or large excavations for larger pipes where a pipe bursting head is pushed into a pipe to be replaced and the new pipe is shoved into the space where the old pipe was burst with a slick chemical depending on the surrounding ground. They simply ram the new pipe in with a hydraulic pusher unit and the hydraulic hoses for the bursting head are carried in the new pipe until the bursting job is completed and the new pipe is set.

The in situ CIPP method only requires minimal excavation-sometimes none if it is done in a basement lateral. The CIPP liner is installed cured and then a wheeled robot is sent in the new pipe and the end of the liner is cut open to place it in service if I remember correctly if it in a sewer main and not a manhole.

and room for the felt vessel to feed the CIPP tubing in the hole and into the old pipe as the winch rope pulls it through the old clean pipe.

The coated felt pipe liner is inflated and either cured with wet steam to harden it or ultraviolet light that is
in a carriage that is rolled down the pipe length from one end to the other to cure the pipe liner.

If there are laterals they send a wheeled robot in the pipe to cut holes with a cutter head where the laterals are located to open the CIPP at that point.

If CIPP is chosen the pipe is inspected, cleaned, reinspected and the CIPP work is done and the new pipe cured and then put into service.

If pipe ramming is done it takes more work and disrupts 2 locations for the entrance and exit pits and requires more space to store pipe, move pipe and lift pipe into the pipe pusher hole and more equipment while the work is being done.

After the pipe is rammed into place it is connected and put into service and then the equipment is removed from both pits and the pits backfilled and either seeded with grass seed or a sidewalk or street is repaired adding to the cost and the time needed to do the work.

The CIPP method is the least disruptive way to do this if the line is broken or plugged with roots.

mattmia2

Are you having a problem with it or are you just wanting to monkey with it? clay pipe can last well over a century if it doesn't get roots in it or settle unevenly.

Intplm.

I haven't installed it directly myself but have had others install it commercially with great success.
If the project is huge and downtime is critical, it can be a great alternative to using the backhoe.

SlamDunk

This is all great info. Thank you. No trouble at all with drainage. None. Except there is a rodent hole near where pipe leaves house. That is all. No smell, no wet ground or slow draining. No suspected root intrusion.

The pipe runs along side of house and there is only 5' between house and fence. And the ground is hard clay. Not much room for any kind of excavator. Just trying to plan and be ready. CIPP seems to be a good option.

ChrisJ

pecmsg said:

SlamDunk said:

I have a 90 year old , 4", soil pipe sewer line about 110' long to city sewer. I would like to get it lined to get more life out of it and not dig a trench that long in the future.

Dig it up and replace it. It’s had a good run, put it to rest!

I read this as you're willing to go help dig it up at no cost.

JUGHNE

This method will probably not work for your situation but will tell the story as it may help others.

I had a rental with 6" clay pipe that was installed with the WPA project of the 30's.

Sections of pipe were only 30" long with cement packed hubs. The tree roots really liked that.

During a major remodel I was able to insert 3" PVC 40 halfway to the alley. The existing joints "galloped" so much that I had to rotate the pipe (tapered end) to get that far.

This saved the concrete driveway and a mature Maple tree that the silly landlord (me!) had planted directly over the sewer line 40 years ago.....always wondered why it grew so well.

This 3" main handled 3 bd 2 bath house for 4 people for years before I did dig up the rest of the line and continue with 4" to the main.

Just as a side note it was about 80' to the main line. These laterals were dug by hand by two men.
It would have been pickaxe chopping thru dry hard clay in the 30's. About 7' deep to get below the basement floor. (This work would have left me in the hole ).

WPA was "work welfare" set up by FDR during the depression. Maybe a couple of dollars a day.
I have heard that there was no problem getting help to do this.

Things have changed haven't they?


PS: this old house had 4" CI just inside the house and then switched to the 6" clay.
If you cameraed your lateral that could be the case for your line also.
It was the common procedure around here. I don't believe they had 4" clay available to them.

PC7060

I have an about 20” of CI remaining in my house, rest went during renovations. We left that wye in place because in connected to a large clay sewer line running about 25’ to old brick city sewer main. 

Ran a camera through the clay line, clean and no cracks. Which is really good be use the city planted a willow oak in the right of way just to the side of the line 40 years ago. 50’ tall now. 

Finger crossed it outlives me! 

If the line had been cracked we were going to run a new connection from the addition to the sewer.