Dry contact thermostat

doc1

Good morning!  I contacted NTI as I have a 2015 Trinity gas boiler with a heat pump and asked them what kind of thermostat I should be using as the one I currently have is hit and miss.  They suggested a dry contact thermostat but wouldn’t recommend a brand.  Can anyone recommend a reliable dry contact thermostat.

ratio

Most thermostats that have a separate Rh & Rc terminal will be dry between Rh & W; they take power from the Rc & C terminal.

I use & recommend the Honeywell 8000 series. It's available in a RedLINK wireless version that supports wireless sensors (& internet access via a RedLINK gateway) and a straight WiFi version that does NOT support wireless sensors (but can use wired remotes).

pecmsg

Isolation relay!

SuperTech

Anything but Nest! I like Honeywell T4 and T6

ratio

If you're not looking for Internet connectivity, any battery-powered stat (no C wire connection) should work fine.

doc1

I bought the Honeywell T4 Programmable thermostat.  I have only two wires, one white and one black.  Do you know what wires go into what holes on the thermostat 

SuperTech

Install the wires on RH and W. It doesn't matter which wire goes where.

EdTheHeaterMan

I have a 2015 Trinity gas boiler with a heat pump.

I have a feeling that you have used the term heat pump incorrectly. A heat pump to most professional HVAC people herein, means a refrigeration system that is working in a reverse cycle. I have a feeling that you are referring the the circulator pump as a "heat pump"

Can you clarify what you mean by heat pump by posting a picture or telling us the model number of the "Heat Pump"

The reason I ask is: you need more than 2 wires from the thermostat to operate most reverse cycle "heat pumps" and difinitely more than 4 wires if there is also a boiler involved.

EDIT: This is the wiring diagram in the thermostat instructions from the boiler to the thermostat that @SuperTech is referring to.

doc1

Thank you for your help. I actually know nothing about what I am talking about. What I do know is that our heating company has been trying to get this boiler working all winter and it has been hit and miss. They replaced the blower and the heat pump (?) and 5000$ later. It has been cleaned and maintained but they are now suggesting getting into the pipes inside the boiler to give it a good clean. I believe they really don't know what it wrong with it. I thought it might be the thermostat so this was my last effort.

pecmsg

Time to find a different service provider.

https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/

doc1

Thanks. We live in a rural community and there are not a lot of options.

pecmsg

doc1 said:

Thanks. We live in a rural community and there are not a lot of options.

There are always options!

doc1

I also live in Canada

neilc

can you post another picture showing all the above parts, and the boiler, in one shot, or from a couple angles,
and to be clear,
you're not getting heat from the boiler to the house?
or the boiler itself isn't firing?
? ? ?

HVACNUT

Are there ever any codes?
The display is showing "lead and lag". Is there more than one boiler? Cascading?
Any chance of boiler pics with the lights on?
What exactly is going on? 
The heating company should have a Service Manager, or somebody with some weight. Let them know your concerns, and what you already paid only to still have a boiler that doesn't function. They should be able to contact NTI for support while they're on site. They should have the basic tools and equipment like an electrical meter, manometer, and combustion analyzer to troubleshoot with tech support. 

Jamie Hall

Depends a little on where in Canada... there are parts of Canada where "rural community" means that the bush plane only shows up once a week... in good weather.

@doc1 , we may be able to handle this by remote control -- but a little vocab. lesson to help out first, no offense intended. The device which you are referring to as a "heat pump": we commonly refer to as a circulator. It should be powered from the electrical junction box on the boiler and, unless someone has gotten creative, its power wire should be blue. There should also be a white wire going back from it to the junction box. Now the thermostat -- and I recommend you get as simple a one as you can find, at least for the moment, should be connected to the boiler low voltage terminals labelled C and T, and it doesn't matter which wire goes to which from a simple thermostat (two wire kind).

Now. What should happen is that when you turn the thermostat up to call for heat the boiler should fire and the circulator should start to run. There may be a delay for the circulator to run, but not much of a one, while the boiler heats up.

That's what should happen. What does happen?

doc1

Pretty close to the bush plane scenario but not that bad lol. The first service providers who installed the boiler where more country bumpkins, the second service provider was shut down due to fraudulent behaviour and the current one I am using is the one who has cost me 5000$ and we still have no heat
so I really appreciate the input. If I can give them some idea of what to check, it would really help. My doctorate is in marriage and family and yours is in heat lol, so I really appreciate learning your language. So... The temperatures here have dropped to -35 below celsius and I have been using oil heaters to heat our circa 1850, 5000 square ft house. They help, but not so much when it is so cold. Anyway,I installed the Honeywell T4 thermostat as indicated above. I can't see the wire from the circulator to determine if it is blue or not but I have taken more pictures if they helps. When I turn the thermostat up the picture on the boiler goes back and forth between blue and yellow (lag), the circulator runs and doesn't stop and the boiler seems to be making a noise like it wants to heat. Oh and only one boiler.

Jamie Hall

Well, we're a step ahead. It should not be calling lead/lag. It's little brain is confused, and that's a hard to troubleshoot from a distance.

Here, however, is the installation manual: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1406257/Nti-Trinity-Ti-150.html?page=32#manual
as I suspect that something is amiss in the control setup -- not the boiler itself (life used to be so simple). However, just what is amiss I'd not care to say at the moment.

I suspect that with patience we can get this...

doc1

Thank you for the manual. It will be over my head Im afraid but at least I can speak their language a little better and will have someone to check the control setup. As I don't feel my current service is that familiar with a boiler system, I will try to find someone who is.

doc1

Also there have been no codes recently just "lead lag". Thank you everyone. You have all been awesome.

Jamie Hall

doc1 said:

Thank you for the manual. It will be over my head Im afraid but at least I can speak their language a little better and will have someone to check the control setup. As I don't feel my current service is that familiar with a boiler system, I will try to find someone who is.

Stay in touch -- we're here to answer questions and see what we can do to help.

Dave Carpentier

When I was looking at a new boiler, I checked out the NTi FTVN series.
I was specifically looking to install the boiler's "system sensor" in a buffer tank, but alas that model would only enable the system sensor when in cascade mode. But you cant just run a single boiler in cascade mode, it cant see the "other boiler" via the interconnecting cable.

Jamie Hall

Dave Carpentier said:

When I was looking at a new boiler, I checked out the NTi FTVN series.
I was specifically looking to install the boiler's "system sensor" in a buffer tank, but alas that model would only enable the system sensor when in cascade mode. But you cant just run a single boiler in cascade mode, it cant see the "other boiler" via the interconnecting cable.

I wonder if it's something like that...

EdTheHeaterMan

I have spent some time reading the I/O manual for the Tft model boiler. This has the ability to operate as a multiple boiler system using the existing on board control. I believe this is the boiler your have. https://recall.ntiboilers.com/uploads/nti/pdfs/manuals/Trinity TFT Installation and Operation Manual (pn 84535).pdf
I have some questions for @doc1

I looked at the complete discussion and have the following questions.

1. Are any of the pipes near the boiler hot? (see the green circle)
2. The photo of the display shows "SETUP" at the lower right. What happens if you press that button? (light blue circle)
3. Is the bigger red circulator operating? That is easy to tell because you can hear that motor and see the coupling that connects the motor to the pump. (yellow circle)

EdTheHeaterMan

I have recently located Appendix A. This is how to program the control on the Tft boilers, and I will take some time to review that document https://recall.ntiboilers.com/uploads/nti/pdfs/manuals/86570 Trinity Lx-Tft Appendix A - Controller and Touchscreen Display S7999D.pdf

EDIT 1. So far I have determined the if the boiler control Icon is Yellow the boiler is on stand by and if it is Blue it is operating normally. I have also determined the the boiler is shipped with the control set up as a single boiler and the [View Lead Lag] button on the screen has nothing to do with the boiler being set up as a single boiler or a group of boilers.

EDIT 2. Need to know some answers to continue. The picture of the touch screen display with the Blue control indicates 74° at 4124 RPM. is that 74°C or 74°F Canada I assume C so there should be some heat in those pipes in the Green oval on the picture in my previous post.

@Jamie Hall I do not think the boiler controls is set up for lead lag. That button is there on the stand alone boiler. Quite confusing for us in the field, but it makes all the sense in the world to a programmer. Easier to leave it there than it is to remove it from the screen. That would take over an hour of writing more software code.

Jamie Hall

I totallly agree, @EdTheHeaterMan . I have to wonder, though, in this age of cell phones and other sundry magic... if @doc1 -- our OP -- has high speed internet (not a given in rural Canada) if it might be possible for some NTI Trinity maven to guide them through getting this thing properly programmed and running, using a video chat? There's no guarantee that Dumb and Dumber got the rest of the install right -- but if they could at least get the beast to run...

EdTheHeaterMan

@doc1 When you say the "boiler is not circulating", do you mean the heated water is going thru the primary loop but not going into the house? like photo A

Or is the hot water not even circulating past the boiler area? like photo B


OR is the boiler not getting hot at all?

mattmia2

I wonder if that ancient 3 piece circulator burned up the relay for the DH loop in the boiler.

EdTheHeaterMan

mattmia2 said:

I wonder if that ancient 3 piece circulator burned up the relay for the DH loop in the boiler.

Don't wander too far, You might get lost.
Here is what the I/O Manual states about the circulators


And if I'm not mistaken, the B&G 100 has a 1/12 HP motor that draws less than 2 amp (FLA)
So we will put a hold on that thought for now. But you're thinking outside the box, so we can give you an E for Effort

mattmia2

Although the LRA might be more than they were expecting out of a 1/6 hp wet rotor circulator.

If nothing else make sure the DH circulator is running.

doc1

Wow! Thank you so much. I will relay all this information to my service provider.

doc1

Again I want to thank you all for you great support. EdTheHeaterMan just walked me through the setup on my boiler, via video call, only to discover that it identifies as a "slave" and that it needs to be set free and identify as a "master". Next step is to contact NTI and have them walk me through the process of changing the name. Thanks again, y'all, eh. And a special thanks to Ed.

doc1

Just heard back from NTI and this is what they said:
NTI info
2:24 PM (9 minutes ago)
to me

Good afternoon,



If this is a Tx model boiler that had the dip switch at the top right corner of the control flipped Up to slave mode, the boiler would simply run continuously to the 113F emergency setpoint.



Please call 800-688-2575 for technical assistance.



Thanks,
Allan