Steam boiler water draining

RuffinoVino

How often and how much water should you drain from a gas steam boiler during winter months? 
Is it better to drain water during a running cycle to better remove any sediment rather then when the boiler is cooler? 

EdTheHeaterMan

What type of Low Water Cut Off do you have?

if you have an electronic LWCO then draining periodically is not necessary

If you have a float type LWCO then you need to flush the LWCO at least once a week.

If you post a picture of the boiler with all the near boiler piping from at least 3 different sides, we can better understand your system and will be better able to assist you.

Jamie Hall

And even a float type low water cutoff rarely more than a gallon a week or so, and just to blow down the LWCO -- not to drain the boiler.

RuffinoVino

Here is a picture of the boiler with the low water cut off. Water is always dirty in the glass and the glass was changed at beginning of season about 2 months or so ago. Also, should I add insulation to the main header pipe coming out of the boiler that's only about 14" or so? Will that add any efficiency? 

EdTheHeaterMan

That does not need draining. You have an electronic LWCO. Annual flush will be just fine. Clean out the pigtail every other year (Pig tail is the loop that the gauge and pressure control are connected to). You want to build up some steam pressure to flush out the bottom pf the boiler. Since you do not have a king valve, you may only get 2 to 3 PSI after all the vents close so that will have to be enough pressure.

The wet returns may also need a flush every other year or longer. How old are the radiators?

pecmsg

I don’t see a Union on that gas line. If it’s inside the cabinet that’s a no no here. 

RuffinoVino

Radiators are all original 1935 except 1 that was replaced with a larger new one because 2 rooms were combined years ago and 1 radiator eliminated. Heating have no issues ever balanced and within literally 10-15 mins all radiators are at least 3/4" hot on each run. Regarding the union comment on the gas line can you explain in more detail? I'm not sure I understand.

Also, should I bother throwing some more insulation in the main pipe doesn't have any?Thanks

Long Beach Ed

Never hurts to insulate with 1" pipe insulation. In this case I doubt the 14" will make any difference.

Some jurisdictions forbid a gas union inside an enclosed appliance cabinet. Some jurisdictions don't permit a gas drip leg. Different rules in different places.

pecmsg

Insulation doesn’t hurt. 

Will you see a return on investment, doubtful for that small area. 

ethicalpaul

That seems like a lot of "mud" production. If it were me, I'd drain it, refill it, and put in a small amount of 8-way until the ph was 10 or so, then see what happens. That might have to be repeated a few times with a few weeks in between because the 8-way will tend to free up sediment.

Is your water acidic or salty? You're not using softened water, right?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Never seen a code rule about a union inside the cabinet. Very common around here.

Corktown

“Rufino“,

When you asked about draining the boiler, I thought you were talking about the practice of many homeowners to, once every week or two, open the boiler drain for a few seconds until the water runs clear of sentiment. I would guess the thought would be this would help avoid the buildup of “dirty water“.

This is something that I wondered about, too.

What’s the collective wisdom from the ‘krewe’ in this regard? …,

EdTheHeaterMan

pecmsg said:

I don’t see a Union on that gas line. If it’s inside the cabinet that’s a no no here. 

You must live in a crazy area. ...or maybe the plumbing inspector just likes to bust your chops! I know I enjoy busting YOUR chops!

jhewings

@Corktown as mentioned above, it depends on which type of LWCO you have. If it's a "probe" LWCO, weekly releases of water are not recommended. If it's a "float" LWCO then regular blowdown is required.

pecmsg

EdTheHeaterMan said:

pecmsg said:

I don’t see a Union on that gas line. If it’s inside the cabinet that’s a no no here. 

You must live in a crazy area. ...or maybe the plumbing inspector just likes to bust your chops! I know I enjoy busting YOUR chops!

No Unions inside the cabinet. Couplings and ells are allowed!

Waher

Corktown said:

What’s the collective wisdom from the ‘krewe’ in this regard? …,

If your water is relatively clean, draining & refilling water each week will make corrosion worse because of introducing new oxygen and minerals into the system. Once you get the sludge out, it's best to get the PH of the water balanced with additives to not induce further corrosion and limit the addition of new water to make up for evaporation losses through air vents.

Long Beach Ed

pecmsg said:

EdTheHeaterMan said:

pecmsg said:

I don’t see a Union on that gas line. If it’s inside the cabinet that’s a no no here. 

You must live in a crazy area. ...or maybe the plumbing inspector just likes to bust your chops! I know I enjoy busting YOUR chops!

No Unions inside the cabinet. Couplings and ells are allowed!

Which is exactly why New York City used to require left-right couplings inside gas stoves.

ethicalpaul

Corktown said:

“Rufino“,

When you asked about draining the boiler, I thought you were talking about the practice of many homeowners to, once every week or two, open the boiler drain for a few seconds until the water runs clear of sentiment. I would guess the thought would be this would help avoid the buildup of “dirty water“.

This is something that I wondered about, too.

What’s the collective wisdom from the ‘krewe’ in this regard? …,

This would be a once a year practice in my opinion.

Corktown

Thank you, 'jhewings', 'Waher' and 'ethicalpaul' for your answers.

To clarify, my guess is that the 'draining' referenced amounts to less than 3 ounces of water being drained each time this is done. No effort is made to replace that water. But over the course of a season that would add up and cause fresh water to be added unnecessarily, it would seem.

So if I'm picking up what you're laying down, if there's a concern about 'dirty water', the homeowner should flush the boiler fully to address it, as opposed to addressing it piecemeal by occasionally draining it off the bottom of the boiler, as described in my first post.

ethicalpaul

I'm ok with occasionally draining the mud to prevent it from building up, I just think "occasionally" means once every year or three.

If the water is getting totally muddy like in the gauge glass, then I'd address that with a complete drain and fill and the moderate application of a ph-raising agent such as 8-way