Am I paying to heat whole house?

Kato21

Background: My landlord just bought a single family home and converting it to a two family. For me it was weird how fast we were able to move in, like she bought the house in October and less than a month we were ready to move in? There wasn’t too much to do downstairs she was trying to rent out the place as a two bedroom but there is no way it can be. 

So we moved in to the one bedroom downstairs place. She separated the electric but didn’t separate the gas lines. There is one furnace and one water heater that connects the whole house. She actually said “over my dead body will I separate the gas lines”. Our gas bill is through the roof. She turned thermostat off upstairs and shut vents and then when someone ran water we got water damage. 

Then she said she is going to turn upstairs electric and get electric water heater and electric heater for upstairs but that won’t solve our gas problems downstairs will it? Are we paying for gas throughout the house? And if someone moves in will we be paying for it? Also trying to say that can shut gas off upstairs but you can’t shut it off without shutting ours off? Like I feel like I shouldn’t be paying a $376 gas bill for a one bedroom first floor apartment.

leonz

FIND A NEW PLACE TO LIVE.

Kato21

That’s hard. I don’t have the money to do that right now I spent everything to come here because I lost my family. and no one will let me husky in. I have no family. But minute I said something she threatened to evict me. When I cried she said she will knock $50 off of rent

leonz

OOOOOHHHHHHH,

That was the wrong thing to say to you period, she cannot threaten you like that as you
have rights as a renter.

Find another place as soon as possible as you do not want her as your landlord.

Kato21

but am I right? Even if she shuts or turns thermostat down am I still paying for gas throughout the house? I said that national grid said there isn’t separate gas meters and from what I am gathering that she has to get a master plumber etc and she can’t shut gas off upstairs unless shutting mine off.. and the furnace keeps running then shutting off.. I guess I’m looking for professional advice or any advice because right now I’m being made to feel stupid and a **** for even questioning her

JUGHNE

Is the gas meter in your name, do you get the bill?

Robert_25

If the only source of heat in the house is the furnace hooked to your gas meter, then yes, you are paying to heat the entire house.  Admittedly the upstairs is not as warm, but it is still adding to the bill if not heated by another means.

I agree with the suggestion to find another place to live. 

Larry Weingarten

Hi, Can you get by with electric space heaters, and an electric blanket? If so, you could turn the gas off the the furnace. When you get complaints, you'll know that you were paying to heat the upstairs.

But really, it should not be your job to try and educate the landlord about how to be a landlord. The chances of her learning quickly and doing the right thing is slim. I'd do what you can to get by and be actively looking for a new place.

If you signed a lease rather than a month to month agreement, getting out will be harder, but if you can demonstrate that the landlord is not living up to her part of the agreement, you'll have leverage. I'd check to see if your state has tenant protections in place. Here's a HUD website:https://www.hud.gov/states/california/renting/tenantrights . I put in California, but try putting in your state and see what comes up.

Yours, Larry

Kato21

Yes I called National Grid. One gas meter and it is in my name. she wants to put electric heaters upstairs but will that solve the problem? won’t disconnecting furnace disconnect mine? Can she do that? 

I feel like she is trying to cut corners and find cheap ways of doing things and calling me stupid for suggesting anything else.

Kato21

There is no one upstairs yet she is still trying to convert … but if I shut furnace off will the hot water heater go off?

Jamie Hall

You are in a bind for sure. Yes, you are paying to heat the whole house. Yes, if you shut the gas off the gas water heater will shut off too. Electric space heaters are expensive to run, except in a few places, and I rather doubt you have the electrical connections to safely run more than two or three, if that.

One wants to be fair, so I'm not going to say your landlord is a scoundrel -- it's just as likely she has no idea as to what she's doing and is probably getting a raw deal somewhere else. Which doesn't mean that you should have to be the guinea pig.

EdTheHeaterMan

You have a real problem. Any utility that is not specific to your apartment should be the landlord's responsibility. Only when the vents to the areas that are not specific to your apartment are completely closed off, is the landlord able to put that utility in the tenants name. Since you are already paying to heat living space that you are not allowed to use, you should be compensated for that usage.

In order to prove that you are paying for someone else's heat and hot water, have it turned off while you make arrangements for alternative heat. If there is a tenant using the other space, that is the best way to do it. Unfortunately there is no tenant in the other space. Keep records of all your calls, and communications regarding this situation. And keep the gas bill records too.

You can turn off the gas yourself at the gas meter, you do not need the gas company to do it, You can also get a padlock to keep it off when you are testing your theory. Since you are paying for that gas you can lock it off. It’s your gas. When a pipe freezes, then maybe the landlord will listen. Do you have renters insurance? Get it for the water damage that will happen if a pipe does burst.

You can shut off just the furnace but leave the hot water on. If the electric switch for the furnace is off then the furnace will not use any gas.

pecmsg

Kato21 said:

Background: My landlord just bought a single family home and converting it to a two family. For me it was weird how fast we were able to move in, like she bought the house in October and less than a month we were ready to move in? There wasn’t too much to do downstairs she was trying to rent out the place as a two bedroom but there is no way it can be. 

So we moved in to the one bedroom downstairs place. She separated the electric but didn’t separate the gas lines. There is one furnace and one water heater that connects the whole house. She actually said “over my dead body will I separate the gas lines”. Our gas bill is through the roof. She turned thermostat off upstairs and shut vents and then when someone ran water we got water damage. 

Then she said she is going to turn upstairs electric and get electric water heater and electric heater for upstairs but that won’t solve our gas problems downstairs will it? Are we paying for gas throughout the house? And if someone moves in will we be paying for it? Also trying to say that can shut gas off upstairs but you can’t shut it off without shutting ours off? Like I feel like I shouldn’t be paying a $376 gas bill for a one bedroom first floor apartment.

Contact the building department. 

Your landlord probably doesn’t have permits to begin with. 

As a tenet you have rights. 

Long Beach Ed

New York State has a shared meter law which prohibits owners and protects renters from exactly what you describe. Perhaps your state has such a law. In New York, a tenant can complain of the condition to the gas utility (here it is NationalGrid). The Utility will send out a technician who will inspect the installation for a shared meter condition.

If you are indeed paying for another unit's electric or gas, (and not agreeing to do so in your lease) you are entitled to treble damages, and the condition must be corrected. Call NationalGrid and mention your concerns.

Pecmsg is correct. Call your building department to determine if the two-family conversion is legal. Depending again on your state, the landlord may be required to move you to another apartment and pay your new rent for a period of time if the place is illegally converted.

Kato21

live in NY she works for city of Utica and is friendly with codes so she probably cheated… but she also doesn’t want me signing a rental agreement at one point 

mattmia2

I think new york state has decent housing laws that at least cover things like the landlord having to cover utilities if the systems aren't split and some sort of default agreement that is in the tenant's favor if the landlord does not obtain a lease.

pecmsg

Kato21 said:

live in NY she works for city of Utica and is friendly with codes so she probably cheated… but she also doesn’t want me signing a rental agreement at one point 

Fight or move’

hot_rod

What about egress windows in that basement?
That might be another concern to look into and bring up with the local building official

when the gas meter was out in your name were you aware of the issue?

ethicalpaul

Even if the gas wasn't heating the upstairs you will still be heating the upstairs because the warmest part of your space will be the ceiling and that will heat the upstairs. Try to find a place where heat is included, although that is more expensive of course

Kato21

The whole place needs a ton of work the downstairs where I am is “livable” but the door is broken, the porch is broken, I can’t see the inside and she didn’t want me to go into the basement but left key in door, went into the basement there is one furnace one water heater … think everyone is right I got to move… just sucks 

Waher

I doubt you are living in a lawful two family. You're landlord is either clueless or brazen about violating numerous laws typical to rental properties. Unless you want to get the authorities involved and potentially have to deal with court, MOVE THE HELL OUT OF THERE.

Jersey2

How does it typically work for renters? I don't know how it is possible for each person to know how much gas they used. If the landlord rented the upstairs, would the new tenants pay 50% of the gas bill? Or, in the lease does the landlord put in a fixed price the would pay for the gas? Unless you got a really good price for rent, I agree with the others that said try to save up and find another place.

mattmia2

Jersey2 said:

How does it typically work for renters? I don't know how it is possible for each person to know how much gas they used. If the landlord rented the upstairs, would the new tenants pay 50% of the gas bill? Or, in the lease does the landlord put in a fixed price the would pay for the gas? Unless you got a really good price for rent, I agree with the others that said try to save up and find another place.

In most housing codes if there isn't a separate service and equipment or separate metering of another form for each unit, that must be paid by the landlord.

gmcinnes

Not heating advice, but as a former tenant of a psycho, friends with tenants of a psycho, and former rentacop: Document. Everything.

Buy a journal with a margin and write down every communication, every pass on the stairs, every evil eye glance, every email, every call, everything, with the date and time in the margin.

As Jamie generously suggests, sometimes landlords get in over their heads.  In other ways we all do.  Lord knows I have.

But you don't want to go down with them, or instead of them.   And a 'paper trail' is how you avoid it.

And if you're in NY there is nothing a busy attorney general loves more than a quick win on an empty net with an assist from an organized person with a paper trail.

But the best thing is to get out and avoid that all together.

Kato21

We are still going to look for new place but I’m also fighting and calling a lawyer and national grid.. seriously thank you all so much for advice 

Long Beach Ed

Send me a message if I can help with the shared meter law. I've had hundreds of tenants, many buildings and know exactly what that landlord can and can't do in New York.

Kato21

Everything that’s been done and said is all on text and saved… pictures of meter, pictures of unsafe structures, pictures of hazardous materials and chemicals they never disposed of… already been through 3 contractors…  calling lawye today 

leonz

You are doing everything right Kato21.

Alaxavand

A few years ago, I was renting a similar place where we had one furnace and one water heater for the whole house. Our landlord hadn’t separated the gas lines either, and we were left paying a huge chunk of the heating bill. It was really unfair, especially in the winter when we were using way less heat than the upstairs tenants.From my experience, your landlord should definitely have separated the gas lines when converting the house into two units. Otherwise, you're right, you’ll end up footing the bill for both apartments. When our landlord eventually sorted things out, our bills dropped significantly.One thing that helped me was contacting a property management company for advice.

GroundUp

Do you have a thermostat too? Is this an actual furnace (like forced air with ductwork), or a boiler? Very seldom would a furnace have separate zones and therefore separate thermostats, meaning if you don't have your own thermostat, the one upstairs is definitely still operational.

ethicalpaul

In most cases I would never recommend the following, but in your case, I think you have been put into an untenable situation by your landlord's choices and actions.

I would stop paying rent immediately and begin looking for a new place. You will have several months to find a place while saving your rent money for that place. Obviously don't use your current landlord as a reference.

Generally if you have to wonder if you are paying for someone else's heat, YOU ARE

Generally if you are the downstairs unit, you are paying at least partially for the upstairs unit's heat no matter what, especially in a converted house.