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amount condensate per sq' radiation budget table/chart exist?

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was wondering if their is a "budget" table/chart to figure out how much condensate in gallons can be expected to be out in system based on sq' of cast iron radiation? heat loss in house says need 122th btu or 508 sq ' radiation, so that was size boiler installed but their is 900 sq ' physical cast iron rads in system, 2 pipe dry return, all traps are working, but cycling water level in boiler that after say 15 min of steaming boiler is low on water..than false filling, was just curious if we should add more water content to boiler in wet leg...

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  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,660
    edited March 2022
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    Your problem probably has to do with wet steam because of oil or additive in the boiler or improper piping or possibly issues with the return clogged or the system holding condensate somewhere because of other issues like pitch or bad steam traps rather than because of the amount of condensate generated. Is the water line in the boiler stable while it is steaming or does it bounce or look foamy? Is the system quiet or does it bang or gurgle?

    Pictures of the near boiler piping are a good start.

    There is a formula for volume of condensate per btu but it is unlikely your problem.
    ethicalpaul
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    Some auto fill devices have a time delay "dwell" before adding water.
    That might give it a little catch up time.
  • brentwantstoknow
    brentwantstoknow Member Posts: 4
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    boiler was tsp cleaned after being installed, near boiler piping spot on with riser, header,equalizer,hartford loop, near to no bounce, running a vaporstat at 8ouncees, but they did try to reuse a 47-2 float type lwco/feeder, we shut off boiler water make up and from cold boiler steamed aprox 15-20 min before activating the lower probe type 801 lwco, once activated took 7 minutes for condensate to return to a safe level to reactivate probe than steamed again.. during that process boiler did go into aprox 4'' vaccuum, so i guess either do a delay feeder and or add vaccuum brkr on boiler and or add additional water content to newer low volume boiler.. return lines were flushed and open..
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,313
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    If the boiler is firing at 122,000 BTUh you are generating 1 quart of condensate per minute. 15 minutes, then would be about 4 gallons -- which might be enough to trip the low water. However, the problem is almost certainly slow returns and wet steam. Even in a very big system 10 minutes should get virtually all the condensate back.

    One thing to note is the boiler water level. If it drops slowly, but is otherwise stable, over the 15 minutes, that is more likely a slow return problem. If it drops fairly quickly but isn't otherwise unstable, it's more likely wet steam. If it bounces a good bit, its' a combination of wet steam and solid carryover.

    None of these problems, I might point out, should be "fixed" with a bandaid like additional water storage...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,853
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    boiler was tsp cleaned after being installed, near boiler piping spot on with riser, header,equalizer,hartford loop, near to no bounce, running a vaporstat at 8ouncees, but they did try to reuse a 47-2 float type lwco/feeder, we shut off boiler water make up and from cold boiler steamed aprox 15-20 min before activating the lower probe type 801 lwco, once activated took 7 minutes for condensate to return to a safe level to reactivate probe than steamed again.. during that process boiler did go into aprox 4'' vaccuum, so i guess either do a delay feeder and or add vaccuum brkr on boiler and or add additional water content to newer low volume boiler.. return lines were flushed and open..
    Post some pictures and let us decide please. 
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,313
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    If your system went into a vacuum, there is something seriously wrong with your venting. If it took that long for condensate to return, there is something seriously wrong with your condensate returns or, possibly, traps.

    Your ideas won't work, but you're free to try them.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    Assuming no pumped return?
    How much wet return piping do you have?
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 5,703
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    mattmia2 said:

    Your problem probably has to do with wet steam because of oil or additive in the boiler or improper piping or possibly issues with the return clogged or the system holding condensate somewhere because of other issues like pitch or bad steam traps rather than because of the amount of condensate generated. Is the water line in the boiler stable while it is steaming or does it bounce or look foamy? Is the system quiet or does it bang or gurgle?

    Pictures of the near boiler piping are a good start.

    There is a formula for volume of condensate per btu but it is unlikely your problem.

    Matt has it right. There is no residential boiler that will run itself out of water from producing steam. Your boiler is almost certainly throwing water into the mains.

    A steam boiler should be sized to the available radiation, the heat loss of the home has nothing to do with it. The heat loss of the home should have been used to determine how much radiation to install, but that ship has sailed. Now, you can effectively reduce radiation by covering part of those apparently overly-large radiators with a blanket.
    NJ Steam Homeowner. See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el
  • dopey27177
    dopey27177 Member Posts: 887
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    1. You need to prevent the boiler from going into a vacuum.
    2. If you have un-insulated steam main isnsulate it.

    There are some minor piping modifications that can be done to get the condensate to return to the boiler quicker,

    If you are interested Email dopey27177@aol.com a sketch of the steam and return piping of your system.

    I will provide you a sketch of the corrective piping if it can be done in your system.
    Additionally I will post the correction on this forum.

    Jake