"A bit of work in your apartment."

DanHolohan

Friends were going aways for a few days. The landlord said, "While you're gone, we have to do a bit of work in your apartment." This is what they saw when they got home.

Note the care taken around the thermostat and light switch.

EBEBRATT-Ed

LOL. The guy new how to pipe though!!! Looks good!!!

Smile. Look at all the free heat they are getting!!

Now if they fir in the wall and ceiling it will be ok. They can move the stat and light switch out onto the new furred wall

Paul Pollets

So I presume the pipes are heating pipes. Uninsulated, exposed, and next to their thermostat? Great stuff!

Zman

An odd number of black pipes makes me think gas. Crazy!

KC_Jones

What is the end game here?
Move the switches?
Move the thermostat?
What are the pipes for?

So many questions from one picture.

DanHolohan

I suspect they're gas pipes. I feel sorry for the electrician who has to get at that light switch if they're going to box this in, which I imagine they will.

Erin Holohan Haskell

Yikes!

ChrisJ

Did they need to vacuum or anything when they got home?
The second thing I looked at was for mess / dust on the floor.

DanHolohan

They took that pic as soon as they walked in.

Jamie Hall

Wow. At least the workmanship looks good and neat.

delcrossv

Pipefitters not talking to the Electricians.....AGAIN.

ChrisJ

The quality of the work is still good.

Maybe the electricians didn't show up

Larry Weingarten

Hi, Makes me wonder what a lot of work would have looked like.

Yours, Larry

PC7060

DanHolohan said:

I suspect they're gas pipes. I feel sorry for the electrician who has to get at that light switch if they're going to box this in, which I imagine they will.

Yes, I expect there will be a junction box on the reverse side of the wall before it’s all done. 

EBEBRATT-Ed

The electrician in me wouldn't be happy but it will be T & M so the owner will pay. The thermostat is a cinch.

The two light switches (and I am assuming they will box this in) they will just have to destroy some of the old sheetrock to get at the wire. It will be an ugly mess because the wires probably won't reach where they have to go.

They do have some new splicing gizmo's for romex that you can legally bury in the wall.

Or maybe the cheap owner will stud it and sheet rock it and leave too holes so you can reach in to get at the stat and switch LOL

Illinoisfarmer

This one appears to be the 'Right Hand' model, they're going to need the 'Left Hand' one. I think you just change the RH at the end of the catalog number to LH. Anyway, problem solved.

Zman

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

The electrician in me wouldn't be happy but it will be T & M so the owner will pay. The thermostat is a cinch.

The two light switches (and I am assuming they will box this in) they will just have to destroy some of the old sheetrock to get at the wire. It will be an ugly mess because the wires probably won't reach where they have to go.

They do have some new splicing gizmo's for romex that you can legally bury in the wall.

Or maybe the cheap owner will stud it and sheet rock it and leave too holes so you can reach in to get at the stat and switch LOL

I'll bet they flip that box to the other side of the wall and use it as a junction box then extend the circuits to a new switch box in the new wall.
If the sparky is 1/2 as good as the pipefitter, they will have it finished in no time. I would want to be a home for that one, here is no saying what the landlord will do next.

delcrossv

@EBEBRATT-Ed ROMEX ?!?

JakeCK

What in Tarnation is going on here. 

I'd be pitching a b**** fit over that. 

ChrisJ

delcrossv said:

@EBEBRATT-Ed ROMEX ?!?

There's nothing wrong with NM-B wiring when used appropriately.

If you're planning on surface mounting it it across a concrete wall in a shop I'd recommend against it.

delcrossv

ChrisJ said:

delcrossv said:

@EBEBRATT-Ed ROMEX ?!?

There's nothing wrong with NM-B wiring when used appropriately.

If you're planning on surface mounting it it across a concrete wall in a shop I'd recommend against it.

Not here it's not.
YMMV.

ChrisJ

delcrossv said:

ChrisJ said:

delcrossv said:

@EBEBRATT-Ed ROMEX ?!?

There's nothing wrong with NM-B wiring when used appropriately.

If you're planning on surface mounting it it across a concrete wall in a shop I'd recommend against it.

Not here it's not.

Are you in a different dimension or something where NM-B doesn't behave the same?
It's literally THHN wire wrapped in a PVC jacket.

If code where you are doesn't allow it, that's fine, but it doesn't mean it's a bad product.

delcrossv

Not another dimension, Just Cook County, Illinois. No romex allowed.
I'm always bemused that it's allowed in multifamily structures elsewhere. Sure, it works fine, until a tenant puts a nail though it.

ChrisJ

delcrossv said:

Not another dimension, Just Cook County, Illinois. No romex allowed.
I'm always bemused that it's allowed in multifamily structures elsewhere. Sure, it works fine, until a tenant puts a nail though it.

You can put a nail through MC and BX as well.
And EMT if you try even a little.

Same with copper pipes, pex etc.

As @Steamhead always says, you can't fix stupid and in those cases NM-B isn't the problem if it's installed in walls down the approx center of studs. When properly installed as per NEC normal picture hanging nails etc shouldn't be anywhere near NM-B.

DanHolohan

Just got confirmation that it's gas pipe. I hope they put up a permanent sign about nails and screws once they box it in.

Or maybe they won't box it in. ;-)

delcrossv

ChrisJ said:

delcrossv said:

Not another dimension, Just Cook County, Illinois. No romex allowed.
I'm always bemused that it's allowed in multifamily structures elsewhere. Sure, it works fine, until a tenant puts a nail though it.

You can put a nail through MC and BX as well.
And EMT if you try even a little.

Same with copper pipes, pex etc.

As @Steamhead always says, you can't fix stupid and in those cases NM-B isn't the problem if it's installed in walls down the approx center of studs. When properly installed as per NEC normal picture hanging nails etc shouldn't be anywhere near NM-B.

Easier with MC, which is part of why it's not code here. IMO it's main attraction is ease of installation.

JUGHNE

Some have used 3 1/2" nails for hanging pictures, they are certain they are driving it in the center of the stud. Wrong, just on the edge and at an angle coming out the side of stud into the cable. If it just penetrates the black (hot) wire then only the nail is energized, possibly the picture and wall (especially plaster) are "tingly".
GFCI and AFCI may trip.

But AC, MC and EMT with the metallic sheathing would most likely trip the breaker.

Rodents can have the same effect as the nail.

Squirrels (rats with pretty tails) like the NM sheathing on Romex. Have seen it in an attic, chewed down to both bare copper Hots on 240 V line, no dead squirrel near by.

So the metallic raceway wins out in these cases.

delcrossv

Also, EMT or rigid conduit makes it easy to add circuits or replace decayed wire..

JUGHNE

And you find that nail penetration immediately!

ChrisJ

Why stop there? Go with GRC.

EMT is the cheap cost cutting solution. If you insist on going with conduit, might as well go all the way.

JUGHNE

It it GRC or RGC?

In either case fun to be had by all.....if T & M.

Have done enough of it to know I am thankful that EMT was developed.

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

It it GRC or RGC?

In either case fun to be had by all.....if T & M.

Have done enough of it to know I am thankful that EMT was developed.

Galv Rigid Conduit.
I guess you can order it anyway you want.

I'll stick with NM-B where I feel it's safe and both PVC conduit and EMT where I feel necessary.
I'm very glad I don't live in an area that felt they needed to ban a perfectly acceptable product.

In the shop we use a lot of GRV.

mattmia2

Chicago has unusual codes because of the fire. In other areas the type of building usually dictates if romex is acceptable or not. Buildings that are smaller, easier to fight fires in and further away from other buildings usually can have romex.

Does the rent go down for the 3 ft^2 that they no longer have?

KC_Jones

mattmia2 said:

Chicago has unusual codes because of the fire. In other areas the type of building usually dictates if romex is acceptable or not. Buildings that are smaller, easier to fight fires in and further away from other buildings usually can have romex. Does the rent go down for the 3 ft^2 that they no longer have?

If they are owners, does someone reimburse them for the amount their property was devalued?  I know the answer, but stuff like this leaves me scratching my head.

JUGHNE

The NEC uses the term "RMC" .....rigid metal conduit.
Options are galvanized....stainless steel....aluminum and of course..... red brass.

(Never seen red brass RMC, for direct burial and swimming pools it says)

From my outdated 2014 NEC.

Common term is just "rigid"

wmgeorge

Chicago - Cook County is a good Union town, same in parts of Minnesota No Romex!! In spite of the fact its NEC approved and has been for years and years.

Can you name a house that has burned down because of it, and was installed to Code?

I seem to remember the Chicago fire being in the 1800's?

delcrossv

Brass rigid conduit looks just like brass water pipe. Priced accordingly. Even around here, people just run galvanized rigid down to 3' below grade, put on an ell and run armored UM cable. I've only seen brass used for pool lights.

Aluminum is popular for service drops.

JUGHNE

wmgeorge said:

I seem to remember the Chicago fire being in the 1800's?

Great memory, I don't remember much before 1900.

Omaha has their own addendum to the NEC of no Romex exposed in the basement.

delcrossv

Lol. We call it zip cord.

ChrisJ

delcrossv said:

Lol. We call it zip cord.

Zip cord is called zip cord because it's easily separated like a zipper. Here, we call zip cord, zip cord.
So, not sure what to say.

Ha, ha, you made a funny.

KC_Jones

JUGHNE said:

wmgeorge said:

I seem to remember the Chicago fire being in the 1800's?

Great memory, I don't remember much before 1900.

Omaha has their own addendum to the NEC of no Romex exposed in the basement.

My house would fail miserably with that standard.