How to determine if a contractor/technicians has the ability to work on your heating system.

skiereric

Perhaps I have high standards. But as a homeowner, it is very difficult to find contractors/technicians who have the knowledge and skill to work on a complex hydronic heating system.

I am in Toronto Canada and "Find a Contractor in your area" is limited to the USA.

There is a big difference between being qualified to work on a heating system and being competent.

With the help of this forum, manufacturers manual, hydronic heating textbook etc, I am becoming an educated homeowner.

I am also learning that so many so-called experts in the industry do not have the knowledge required.

For example, I hired a well-reviewed heating contractor to complete the annual maintenance of my weil-mclain boiler. I specified I wanted the work must be completed per the manual. The tech shows up to do his thing, without a maintenance kit or even a printout of the maintenance steps.

A few weeks later as I started learning more, I ask if any inhibitor needed to be added, he replied with a confused no, as he didn't check or have the chemistry test kit, and didn't recall what other steps he missed. He told me the chemistry wasn't important, to which I pushed back that it was as it could void the boiler warranty.

Moving forward how do I make sure that a "qualified tech" actually follows the instructions without providing a printout and pencil to follow? Or am I asking for too much?

Ironman

With your situation, it may be difficult to find someone with that level of knowledge and skill.

I’d recommend communicating verbally and in writing exactly what you expect the tech to do prior to him coming out. Send him a copy of the manual and tell him that you expect him to follow it and have the necessary materials, test instruments, etc. when he comes out. Tell him that if can’t comply, then not to come.

Then, expect to pay a hefty fee for someone that can and will do this - if you can find one.

delcrossv

Alternatively, get all the required equipment and DIY.

HVACNUT

I think part of the problem is all the different manufacturers, and those manufacturers often have multiple models and designs. Its virtually impossible to know every system inside and out. 
I've been criticized more than once for needing to download a manual or contact tech support for a particular boiler. It's not easy, so be prepared to have a tech spend some time reading or waiting for tech support. On your dime. 
Assuming the OP has a WM Ultra gas, you don't just need the maintenance kit, you need the tool to clean the HX. Not everyone has one. And an inhibitor test vial comes with the maintenance kit. 

skiereric

Ironman said:

With your situation, it may be difficult to find someone with that level of knowledge and skill.

My situation of being located in Canada? Or expecting techs to follow the manufacturer's directions? Is the average bar that low?

pecmsg

skiereric said:

With your situation, it may be difficult to find someone with that level of knowledge and skill.

My situation of being located in Canada? Or expecting techs to follow the manufacturer's directions? Is the average bar that low?  

Unfortunately lower. 

There are techs that put in enough hours to pay the rent then take the rest of the week off. 

When you find someone take really good care of him/ her!

mattmia2

You sort of need a dealer that specializes in that brand.

DJD775

Your're absolutely doing the right thing by educating yourself but unfortunately that's going to set you up a for a lot of future disappointment. If your not willing to do it yourself you're best bet is to ask questions upfront and when you find a satisfactory tech keep them. Same holds true for any trade. Also just because someone is factory certified don't assume they follow anything they learned from the manufacturer.

mattmia2

DJD775 said:

Also just because someone is factory certified don't assume they follow anything they learned from the manufacturer.

Or even remember it depending on how often they work on that particular equipment.
Or are given the tools and supplies needed to do it the factory way by their employer.

DJD775

@mattmia2 I can understand this happening at a smaller HVAC company but I've seen this stuff happen at major car dealers that I know have the right equipment.

mattmia2

Supervision too cheap to give the tech the needed time and supplies has little to do with the size of the organization.

DJD775

True. I always give myself ample time when I do things myself and I'm satisfied 99% of the time .

PC7060

delcrossv said:

Alternatively, get all the required equipment and DIY.

Agree, you can get a good combustion analyzer with Bluetooth  for around $400.  

Of course, this assumes your the hand on type.  

STEVEusaPA

PC7060 said:

Agree, you can get a good combustion analyzer with Bluetooth  for around $400.  

Of course, this assumes your the hand on type.  

Good? Recently calibrated? Bluetooth?...Where?

Zman

You are asking tough questions. Part of the problem is the customer's perception. Most customers think nothing of following the manufactures recommendations to a T when maintaining their luxury car but would run you out of the house if you suggested they should pay for all those tests on an annual boiler service.
I think you need to find out what services a company offers before inviting them to the house. You may need to supplement some of what you want to be done by doing it yourself. If there is a service kit required to do a job, politely ask them if they normally include that in a service call. The same goes for combustion analysis and water testing.
I am blown away by how few companies offer combustion analysis. The number of companies that offer water testing is even fewer. Many companies just show up and make sure the pressure and flame look OK and "rag and tag" the boiler.

Zman

STEVEusaPA said:

PC7060 said:

Agree, you can get a good combustion analyzer with Bluetooth  for around $400.  

Of course, this assumes your the hand on type.  

Good? Recently calibrated? Bluetooth?...Where?

When I consider the cost of calibration and eventually replacement, I figure my Testo 320 costs more than $400 annually.

ayetchvacker

skiereric said:

Perhaps I have high standards. But as a homeowner, it is very difficult to find contractors/technicians who have the knowledge and skill to work on a complex hydronic heating system. I am in Toronto Canada and "Find a Contractor in your area" is limited to the USA. There is a big difference between being qualified to work on a heating system and being competent. With the help of this forum, manufacturers manual, hydronic heating textbook etc, I am becoming an educated homeowner. I am also learning that so many so-called experts in the industry do not have the knowledge required. For example, I hired a well-reviewed heating contractor to complete the annual maintenance of my weil-mclain boiler. I specified I wanted the work must be completed per the manual. The tech shows up to do his thing, without a maintenance kit or even a printout of the maintenance steps. A few weeks later as I started learning more, I ask if any inhibitor needed to be added, he replied with a confused no, as he didn't check or have the chemistry test kit, and didn't recall what other steps he missed. He told me the chemistry wasn't important, to which I pushed back that it was as it could void the boiler warranty. Moving forward how do I make sure that a "qualified tech" actually follows the instructions without providing a printout and pencil to follow? Or am I asking for too much?

I’d say you have “proper standards”. Finding a tech who is trained on that particular piece of equipment will take some phone calls I think. You are right to do the recommended maintenance on that brand for sure. I would suggest calling around and asking for a lead tech or service manager to see if they can meet your needs. The normal person answering the phone may not know if they have a tech competent on that brand. Dispatchers assume their techs can do everything but we all have limitations. Good luck

DJD775

Zman said:

STEVEusaPA said:

PC7060 said:

Agree, you can get a good combustion analyzer with Bluetooth  for around $400.  

Of course, this assumes your the hand on type.  

Good? Recently calibrated? Bluetooth?...Where?

When I consider the cost of calibration and eventually replacement, I figure my Testo 320 costs more than $400 annually.

That's why I will probably never own one and pay someone for a proper combustion analysis. I do have wet kit, draft gauge, and smoke tester but those are low maintenance compared to a modern digital combustion analyzer.

Daveinscranton

Depends on what you enjoy.  I have met folks who aren’t safe around a screwdriver hanging curtain rods.  I have met people safe in extremely lethal environments.  With gas, electricity, carbon monoxide etc, you are playing for keeps.  It has always been that way.

If you are mechanically inclined, nothing wrong with servicing your own things.  I enjoy teasing the secrets of how something is made out of the final product.  And why.  I do have a fair number of toasted things that I wrecked.  No one but me.  I consider it a victory when I can order one part rather than 2.  Knowing that the first one was for practice….

I call it a hobby.  My friends feel it is mental illness.  Fortunately, this site has enough fellow enablers that I don’t have to justify my peculiarities.

The folks that help me and are masters of their profession, I revere and treat like gold.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I don't see a lot of Weil-McLain boilers out West here and I was surprised and pleased to see this thread and check out the manual. The maintenance procedures are well documented and the design of the boiler is well suited for disassembly and cleaning.

https://www.weil-mclain.com/sites/default/files/field-file/ultra-series-3-manual_1.pdf

@skiereric : Did your maintenance guy clean the heat exchanger as shown? If he did, I'll give him extra points. How much debris was there? While water quality is important, I wouldn't strike him off your list. See if he's willing to buy some litmus paper the next time he comes. These people are trainable.

Most companies in the Bay Area are not interested in doing maintenance or service and repair. For a medium to large size company, you need a guy in the field with a truck full of expensive parts and testing equipment and a guy in the office to schedule, order materials and help with troubleshooting. All that means you have to charge a lot of money to make a profit.

If possible, try to find an experienced old timer that works by himself who doesn't have to charge an arm and a leg and knows their way around hydronic heating systems.

PC7060

STEVEusaPA said:

Agree, you can get a good combustion analyzer with Bluetooth  for around $400.  

Of course, this assumes your the hand on type.  

Good? Recently calibrated? Bluetooth?...Where?

TPI 710 series. Fully calibrated, new units.  O2 sensor warrantied for two years. Calibration is around $80 I believe. About $200 for sensor replacement with calibration. 

manufacturer site: https://www.testproductsintl.com/gas-detection/combustion-efficiency-analyzers/dc710-combustion-analyzer/

Typical pricing, bit less than I paid. https://www.globaltestsupply.com/product/tpi-dc710c1-flue-gas-analyzer-10-c-to-50-c-14-f-to-122-f?

flat_twin

Any love for the UEI C20? Very basic CO analyzer.