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Worst Steam Piping Ever

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Mountain172
Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
edited February 2022 in Strictly Steam
This dummy is trying to supply steam to three radiators from the return side of the boiler. ****
Homeowner said it's been like that for 5 years
The neighbors complained that the water hammer was keeping them awake at night.

Comments

  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,062
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    Are you talking about the horizontal pipe with take off on it?

    That looks to still be steam main until it drops down to the wet return.
    Ironmanmattmia2
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    JUGHNE said:
    Are you talking about the horizontal pipe with take off on it? That looks to still be steam main until it drops down to the wet return.
    Agreed, I don’t see  anything inappropriate there.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    The 1" vertical pipe which looks like a return is actually feeding three (3) counter-flow radiators
    The three insulated run outs are going to radiators with no returns
    ethicalpaul
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    The 2" tee with the plug is supposed to be the supply
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,670
    edited February 2022
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    I don't see anything wrong here per se. Possibly some near boiler piping is smaller than recommended and I can't tell how it is pitched from this picture (and possibly whoever replaced the boiler screwed up the pitch). Possibly some missing main venting. Also can't see if there are more returns that would explain some of the story. Looks like there may be a return along that back wall that was below the water line with some old boiler that is no longer below the water line.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
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    the main off the header in the foreground doesn't circle around to the other end(left) of the 3 insulated takeoffs that are pictured?

    the small vertical looks like the extended main's return to wet,

    the 2 " plugged tee looks like the skim port,
    known to beat dead horses
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,528
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    The horizontal copper line is feeding the radiators?
    Retired and loving it.
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    I will try to explain this one more time.
    The three insulated run outs you see are one pipe steam (counter-flow) and each connected to a radiator.
    They main supply to those radiators is being fed from the bottom of the boiler. that is the 1" vertical pipe.
    The 2" plug in the tee is supposed to be feeding the radiators with another take off from the header!
    Geez Louise!
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    No the take off which is in the foreground of the picture supplies one half of the house
    The other half of the house is supplied by the 1" vertical pipe from the boiler return tapping.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
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    well, good luck getting steam from the wet return , , ,
    but you can't quick pipe it to the plugged tee either,
    it needs to pipe into the header, next to the good takeoff,
    or you'll have a water pump up to those 3 wet supply rads
    known to beat dead horses
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,739
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    So the main off the header doesn't loop around to the return?

    If that's the case there are even more problems because I don't see a return for that main, and if it's counterflow then the drip is missing.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    mattmia2
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,528
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    But it's impossible to supply steam from the bottom of the boiler if the boiler is filled with water.
    Retired and loving it.
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    Neil it is not even a wet return
    That is the supply going to the boilers
    That's why I titled this
    Worst Steam piping ever
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
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    are we sure the "good" main isn't counter flow also?
    and missing it's drip?
    known to beat dead horses
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    Hi Dan

    yes finally someone understands
    The dummy who piped it is trying to supply steam to those radiators from the bottom of the boiler!!!!!
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    OMG Neil
    the only pipe going to the radiators is the pipe coming from the bottom of the boiler!!!!!!
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,528
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    Oh my.
    Retired and loving it.
    SuperTech
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    Correct the other main is counter-flow as well and missing it's drip
    But that is the least of their problems
    At least those radiators have steam going to them...LOL
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    The banging was so horrendous
    I never heard anything like it in 30 years of being a heating contractor
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,670
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    It isn't at all clear from that picture that there isn't a single main that runs around the basement and connects to that return.
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
    edited February 2022
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    OMG Neil
    the only pipe going to the radiators is the pipe coming from the bottom of the boiler!!!!!!

    easy , , , I understand that, now,
    and I was saying the same thing, and you can't get steam from down there, at what should be a wet return to the hartford loop,

    the plugged 2 " tee at the ceiling needs to tie into the header,
    the drip stays as is,
    Do you need a drip on the "working" main?
    known to beat dead horses
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,528
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    mattmia2 said:

    It isn't at all clear from that picture that there isn't a single main that runs around the basement and connects to that return.

    That was my first thought.
    Retired and loving it.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,670
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    The lack of drip would explain the water hammer.
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    Matt
    There is not a single main which runs around the house connecting to a return
    The three insulated runouts go directly to 90's up through the floor to a valve which connects to the radiator
    I know it is hard to believe but yes this is how they piped it
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,528
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    Where is this?
    Retired and loving it.
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    Matt
    Piping a steam main from the bottom of the boiler will cause water hammer too....LMFAO!
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    Hi Dan
    Pawtucket Rhode Island
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,528
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    How did you break the news to the homeowner?
    Retired and loving it.
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    hahahaha
    They said can you clean it to get us through the winter....LMAO
    SuperTech
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    Seriously though they just could not process what I was telling them
    Because someone told them the boiler just needed a good cleaning....:)
  • DanHolohan
    DanHolohan Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 16,528
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    Who gets to work on steam in America?

    Everybody!
    Retired and loving it.
    mattmia2SuperTech
  • Mountain172
    Mountain172 Member Posts: 16
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    That's the truth....
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,670
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    Matt
    Piping a steam main from the bottom of the boiler will cause water hammer too....LMFAO!

    I don't see how it would hammer, i don't see how steam would get in there to collapse. It would just be a dead end piece of piping.

    The hammer is the result of the condensate trying to return through the steam existing the boiler because there is no drip before the header(and possibly hitting condensate collected in the main depending on how it was intended to work before the boiler(s) was/were replaced)
    delcrossv
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,861
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    mattmia2 said:
    Matt Piping a steam main from the bottom of the boiler will cause water hammer too....LMFAO!
    I don't see how it would hammer, i don't see how steam would get in there to collapse. It would just be a dead end piece of piping. The hammer is the result of the condensate trying to return through the steam existing the boiler because there is no drip before the header(and possibly hitting condensate collected in the main depending on how it was intended to work before the boiler(s) was/were replaced)
    I’m sorry but how does steam get past the Hartford loop?
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 2,703
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    So,
    How about those main vents ?????
    known to beat dead horses
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,376
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    Where does this pipe go?


    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • delcrossv
    delcrossv Member Posts: 742
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    I gotcha.
    Main 1 has no drip (the one hooked to the header)- bang, bang bang.
    Main 2 is piped as if it were a parallel flow return instead of a counterflow supply. Has a drip, but needs to be connected to the header. I imagine those 3 rads are cold all the time?

    Nice paint job though....
    Trying to squeeze the best out of a Weil-McLain JB-5 running a 1912 1 pipe system.