Worst Steam Piping Ever

Mountain172

This dummy is trying to supply steam to three radiators from the return side of the boiler. ****
Homeowner said it's been like that for 5 years
The neighbors complained that the water hammer was keeping them awake at night.

JUGHNE

Are you talking about the horizontal pipe with take off on it?

That looks to still be steam main until it drops down to the wet return.

KC_Jones

JUGHNE said:

Are you talking about the horizontal pipe with take off on it? That looks to still be steam main until it drops down to the wet return.

Agreed, I don’t see  anything inappropriate there.

Mountain172

The 1" vertical pipe which looks like a return is actually feeding three (3) counter-flow radiators
The three insulated run outs are going to radiators with no returns

Mountain172

The 2" tee with the plug is supposed to be the supply

mattmia2

I don't see anything wrong here per se. Possibly some near boiler piping is smaller than recommended and I can't tell how it is pitched from this picture (and possibly whoever replaced the boiler screwed up the pitch). Possibly some missing main venting. Also can't see if there are more returns that would explain some of the story. Looks like there may be a return along that back wall that was below the water line with some old boiler that is no longer below the water line.

neilc

the main off the header in the foreground doesn't circle around to the other end(left) of the 3 insulated takeoffs that are pictured?

the small vertical looks like the extended main's return to wet,

the 2 " plugged tee looks like the skim port,

DanHolohan

The horizontal copper line is feeding the radiators?

Mountain172

I will try to explain this one more time.
The three insulated run outs you see are one pipe steam (counter-flow) and each connected to a radiator.
They main supply to those radiators is being fed from the bottom of the boiler. that is the 1" vertical pipe.
The 2" plug in the tee is supposed to be feeding the radiators with another take off from the header!
Geez Louise!

Mountain172

No the take off which is in the foreground of the picture supplies one half of the house
The other half of the house is supplied by the 1" vertical pipe from the boiler return tapping.

neilc

well, good luck getting steam from the wet return , , ,
but you can't quick pipe it to the plugged tee either,
it needs to pipe into the header, next to the good takeoff,
or you'll have a water pump up to those 3 wet supply rads

KC_Jones

So the main off the header doesn't loop around to the return?

If that's the case there are even more problems because I don't see a return for that main, and if it's counterflow then the drip is missing.

DanHolohan

But it's impossible to supply steam from the bottom of the boiler if the boiler is filled with water.

Mountain172

Neil it is not even a wet return
That is the supply going to the boilers
That's why I titled this
Worst Steam piping ever

neilc

are we sure the "good" main isn't counter flow also?
and missing it's drip?

Mountain172

Hi Dan

yes finally someone understands
The dummy who piped it is trying to supply steam to those radiators from the bottom of the boiler!!!!!

Mountain172

OMG Neil
the only pipe going to the radiators is the pipe coming from the bottom of the boiler!!!!!!

DanHolohan

Oh my.

Mountain172

Correct the other main is counter-flow as well and missing it's drip
But that is the least of their problems
At least those radiators have steam going to them...LOL

Mountain172

The banging was so horrendous
I never heard anything like it in 30 years of being a heating contractor

mattmia2

It isn't at all clear from that picture that there isn't a single main that runs around the basement and connects to that return.

neilc

Mountain172 said:

OMG Neil
the only pipe going to the radiators is the pipe coming from the bottom of the boiler!!!!!!

easy , , , I understand that, now,
and I was saying the same thing, and you can't get steam from down there, at what should be a wet return to the hartford loop,

the plugged 2 " tee at the ceiling needs to tie into the header,
the drip stays as is,
Do you need a drip on the "working" main?

DanHolohan

mattmia2 said:

It isn't at all clear from that picture that there isn't a single main that runs around the basement and connects to that return.

That was my first thought.

mattmia2

The lack of drip would explain the water hammer.

Mountain172

Matt
There is not a single main which runs around the house connecting to a return
The three insulated runouts go directly to 90's up through the floor to a valve which connects to the radiator
I know it is hard to believe but yes this is how they piped it

DanHolohan

Where is this?

Mountain172

Matt
Piping a steam main from the bottom of the boiler will cause water hammer too....LMFAO!

Mountain172

Hi Dan
Pawtucket Rhode Island

DanHolohan

How did you break the news to the homeowner?

Mountain172

hahahaha
They said can you clean it to get us through the winter....LMAO

Mountain172

Seriously though they just could not process what I was telling them
Because someone told them the boiler just needed a good cleaning....:)

DanHolohan

Who gets to work on steam in America?

Everybody!

Mountain172

That's the truth....

mattmia2

Mountain172 said:

Matt
Piping a steam main from the bottom of the boiler will cause water hammer too....LMFAO!

I don't see how it would hammer, i don't see how steam would get in there to collapse. It would just be a dead end piece of piping.

The hammer is the result of the condensate trying to return through the steam existing the boiler because there is no drip before the header(and possibly hitting condensate collected in the main depending on how it was intended to work before the boiler(s) was/were replaced)

pecmsg

mattmia2 said:

Matt Piping a steam main from the bottom of the boiler will cause water hammer too....LMFAO!

I don't see how it would hammer, i don't see how steam would get in there to collapse. It would just be a dead end piece of piping. The hammer is the result of the condensate trying to return through the steam existing the boiler because there is no drip before the header(and possibly hitting condensate collected in the main depending on how it was intended to work before the boiler(s) was/were replaced)

I’m sorry but how does steam get past the Hartford loop?

neilc

So,
How about those main vents ?????

Ironman

Where does this pipe go?

delcrossv

I gotcha.
Main 1 has no drip (the one hooked to the header)- bang, bang bang.
Main 2 is piped as if it were a parallel flow return instead of a counterflow supply. Has a drip, but needs to be connected to the header. I imagine those 3 rads are cold all the time?

Nice paint job though....