Saddle Valves
Is this considered acceptable for a pro to use a saddle valve? I think I know the answer but I would like to hear what the pros think.
Comments
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Not a plumber -- but in my view, properly installed, there's nothing wrong with them. Companies I've worked with have installed a lot of a variant of them on water mains for the house connections-- it's what's used all the time (it's called hot-tapping; it's done for gas mains as well).Br. Jamie, osb
Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England1 -
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@DJD775
Saddle valves are shipped with humidifiers and refrigerator ice makers. Some use them but in some states they are not allowed. They are leakers1 -
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I do not like them
As Jamie mentioned there are some very well-designed commercial valves designed for hot tapping. IMO those little 1/4" POS valves are for homeowners and tract homes. I have seen too many leaks caused by them."If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
Albert Einstein2 -
This was the standard POS valve. In all the houses I've owned I've changed them out for piece of mind. I guess this is way I tend to like to do things myself.Zman said:I do not like them
As Jamie mentioned there are some very well-designed commercial valves designed for hot tapping. IMO those little 1/4" POS valves are for homeowners and tract homes. I have seen too many leaks caused by them.0 -
I didn't realize they were used in large applications like water mains. I'm hope the valves they use on applications like that must be of better quality the your standard refrigerator valve.Jamie Hall said:Not a plumber -- but in my view, properly installed, there's nothing wrong with them. Companies I've worked with have installed a lot of a variant of them on water mains for the house connections-- it's what's used all the time (it's called hot-tapping; it's done for gas mains as well).
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To be fair look at the cost of a typical 3/4" or 1" ball valve and then look at the cost of a Mueller or Ford curb stop or corp stop. There's a substantial price difference there too. From what I recall, a good quality curb stop is about 10X the cost of a normal ball valve.
But when you buy valves and parts from Ford or Mueller they come engineered better a lot, made a lot better, packaged better and their support is better.
I'm sure their saddle valves are just a wee bit different.
I'm still amazed by how good a pack joint connection works.Single pipe 392sqft system with an EG-40 rated for 325sqft and it's silent and balanced at all times.
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I suspect if I ask the refrigerator saddle valve manufacturer who engineered them this would be the answer I would get:
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When new or replumbing I would always put tees on H&C under the kit sink.
Stops with 3/8" OD outlets on all 4 stubs.
Hot for sink and DW.
Cold for sink and icemaker 3/8 x 1/4 comp reducer.....no matter where the fridge was.
Even across the room the kit sink was closer than the basement. Run 1/4 under cabinet toekick or under floor.
For serious hot pipe taps, our NG company welds a nipple on the 10-12PSI gas main. then pressure test the weld.
They have a tapping/drilling tool that works thru the stop screwed on the new nipple. Then somehow remove the tool as the stop is shut off.
The water dept has a tapping tool that drills and threads a 1" opening in the pressurized water main (only 40 PSI here).
The tool then seals off as the tap is removed and the "corporation stop" is screwed into the main thru the tool. It is a 1/4 turn valve. (must remember to have it off before removing the tool...huh...something you forget only once).
They might space out 4 1" taps to yolk feed a 2" service.
The corporation stop is usually 1" MPT X 1" flare.
As ChrisJ said a lot more money, but something lasting here since water lines installed here in 1920's.
Back then a 2-3' flexable lead "gooseneck" was formed to connect the iron piping going to the curb stop.
Today it is type K soft copper or maybe some form of pex.
The lead gooseneck is removed whenever possible/practical.
The corp stop is owned by the water department, the rest is the responsibility of the owner.1 -
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If I was going in to some random house to install an icemaker etc., I'd much rather tap a line than hope I can work the main cutoff & drain enough of the system without causing an even bigger problem that I would be responsible for.
I do have 3/8 ball valves for the places I'm responsible for, however, even though I know the main valves all work.
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At least give us the area your company serves. Or get listed.charlesbeaverson said:Saddle valves are not the best. I know they are used quite frequently but they are also frequent leakers at the saddle clamp. They never seem to hold 100% when closed for maintenance. Definitely would not try to clamp them onto a plastic water pipe. Best to tap into the water line and add a valve that's very compatible with the piping being tapped into. h̶t̶t̶p̶:̶/̶/̶w̶w̶w̶.̶e̶x̶p̶e̶r̶t̶-̶p̶l̶u̶m̶b̶e̶r̶.̶c̶o̶m̶
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Funny this thread is going. Literally today I just removed a saddle valve to an icemaker. Sweat in a Tee and a proper 1/4 turn supply valve.
Thankfully most places around here have wells. The breaker always works to turn off the water.....Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!1
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