popping safety switch on Honeywell R8184G4009 Protectorelay

mikeymo

New member as of 1-'22. I am not new to heater problems however my latest fix has to do with the intermittent operation that has me -early in the morning, on a daily basis, resetting the burner to supply the demand of the bimetal limiting switch. The unit in question is brand new, this is an exact replacement of that previous burner control - which was removed for similar failures. By failure I mean intermittent, sometimes loud buzzing, sometimes not or at least I didn't hear it. Prior to replacing that unit I tested everything with no reason to think it was anything but a tired old control which had served me well for many years.
So here it is another day and I have been dealing with this problem for a month since the new control was installed. The next morning after I installed this, it failed. There was no lockout issue after that for a period of eight days. However it began to fail on a daily basis for the next week. So I have two problems really. I express my concerns with the supplier that I had no confidence that this unit will do its job. I was simply looking to get a replacement. I had purchased this online. No help there and I was directed to seek the manufacturers tech support to determine this supposed malfunction. After 75 minutes of testing a unit that was working they couldn't determine that there was anything wrong with the unit. I insisted that you couldn't fix something that's not broke so I sent them a video of the unit in its bad state...
They won't acknowledge the problem and I have $100 hockey puck (it comes with a 2 year warranty). Prior to lockout, 0 Vac orange wire to ground, 12v at jumped TT terminals -also to ground. 45 seconds later the CAD cell does its thing. I hit the reset after a minute, the burner will run its cycle then, and throughout that day, usually, - today I have had to reset every new cycle. It's buzzing every time and even a good smack doesn't always do it now.

STEVEusaPA

Get a primary control that doesn't use technology from the 70's. Your problem may be electrical in general, lack of ground, weak/bad neutral or heat.
How are incoming volts and Hertz?

EBEBRATT-Ed

@mikeymo

Some things are beyond simple troubleshooting and you need a service technician with the proper tools to resolve the problem. Is it possible you have some loose wiring or another external control causing this?

HVACNUT

The fact that you replaced an R8184G with another R8184G means you aren't trained in oil heat.
But regardless, the control is simply doing what it's designed to do, even if it is 30 seconds too late.
This is not DIY. You need a competent tech on site to diagnose, repair, and test. All the back and forth on a forum isn't going to help if you don't have the knowledge, tools, and test instruments. 

ratio

When a safety switch trips, my first thought is that it's doing its job.

mikeymo

I do appreciate that you all have my best interest with this old boiler. I've only been replacing the parts that were installed as an upgrade by the pros' over the years. Admittedly, I have only the good help from the various OL posts and vids to keep this going.

Jamie Hall

ratio said:

When a safety switch trips, my first thought is that it's doing its job.

Uh... yeah. When a safety switch trips, the correct response is to find out why -- not to blame the switch. Even if it is obsolete, it is doing what it was intended to do -- the fact that the new one didn't change the problem pretty well proves that.

If you are not trained and equipped to find out what problem the switch is responding to, you really need to find someone who is -- and get them in there, pronto.

mikeymo

Agreed, safety switch - the #1 purpose of the Protecto relay - indeed is doing IT"S part. So when there is no voltage on the load (orange) then the CAD responds in time as it should.
And I wonder why! Loose wire, grounding, how about a bad device off the shelf? Oh I've tried to eliminate that for weeks. Lets note that the control has not failed every single day. Today is not a good day. Now as far as getting a Pro in here, how bout if He/She\It arrives and it is running OK, or the reset turns on the burner.

BgautreU

There are many things that could be causing the unit to go off on safety.  A pro will be able to evaluate all things to consider.  Oil flow/pressure, cad cell resistance, proper combustion, motor, coupling, draft, etc.  The tools alone for this can set you back thousands.  While there is always a chance the problem may prove elusive, a pro will be equipped to verify the equipment is running safely and efficiently.

HVACNUT

If you have 120v on Black, TT is closed, and no 120v on Orange, then it's the control. 
If you've reset the primary and nothing happens (except for the buzz of the transformer) for 45 seconds and the safety trips, it could be a seized pump or windings in the motor. Who you gonna call?

rick in Alaska

I will submit that if you have the above readings, and it doesn't fire, and it keeps locking out, that it is most likely a bad cad cell. Try this: Take the cad cell wires off and see if it runs then. If it does, then most likely there is a short in the cad cell or the wiring. Then measure the resistance of the cad cell when you get it running, again with the wires off. It should be no more than 1500 ohms, but better if it is under 1000. Cad cells do go bad.
Rick

EBEBRATT-Ed

And if the cad cell is seeing light (or thinks it's seeing light) with the burner off on a call for heat the burner will not start