1933 Tudor with 2 pipe vapor system

jalagna

Not sure that a Gorton 2 will fit, it’s a very tight area and the width of the vent might be an issue. 

clammy

Since you previously stated your steam was under vacuum after firing . I would install the same Hoffmann 76 vacuum vent ,even though most suggests gorton what you will find w the gorton is that distribution between cycles will be longer to establish steam at the rads ,while w a vacuumed vent if the system is tight and your holding even a slight a vacuum between cycles your steam distribution will be faster w the vacuum vent then w a standard air vent . The Hoffmann vapor vacuum vent #76 is what will bring your system back to the way it was designed . As for all your other issues just wondering when was the last time the water side of your boiler has been washed out and cleaned ,when mud accumulates in the bottom of your boiler the quality of the steam it producers is effected ,it also would be good to flush the return inlet of the boiler also ,ive seen many just about clogged w mud and rust . Remove the sight glass assembly and clean ,clean low water cut off probe and check the safety valve piping they are usually just about plugged being no one ever removes and inspects the safety valves inlet piping ,it’s a good idea to check .peace and good luck clammy

jalagna

Thanks!!

Jamie Hall

Steamhead said:

jalagna said:

I have Hoffman 87 auto vent and a Hoffman 79 auto vent, will either do anything? 

Jamie Hall said:

If they work... but a better bet on a replacement for that would be a Gorton #2, if it will fit (may have to use a bushing).

They will NOT work for steam. They are for hot-water. Wouldn't be the first time:

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/160298/todays-kodak-moment-uhhhh-beavis-will-these-vents-work

HuH? A Gorton #2 is for hot water?

jalagna

Do
you think the new vent will fix some banging and help some rads that weren’t working properly? The location of the vent and what the floor looks like above it is making me think the vent has been bad for a very long time, I moved into the house in September and I had to break open a plaster ceiling to find the thing. 

Steamhead

@Jamie Hall the Hoffman 87 and Hoffman 79 auto vents are hot-water vents.

Jamie Hall

oops. I wasn't paying attention and didn't check. My apologies to all, and thank you @Steamhead

reggi

jalagna said:

Would this happen to be the same one from
December ? 

jalagna said:

Not sure what type or how I’m going to change without taking down a bunch of plaster… ughh 

jalagna

Yes, that’s it!

reggi

jalagna said:

Yes, that’s it!

Ouch ! At least you overcame the issue of how you were going to remove it.. It's really a great system for comfort..

Steamhead

What did you put in?

jalagna

Hoffman #76 Vapor vacuum. I wish I knew how they I stalled the original vent that I took out, it was embedded in plaster and right up against a ceiling joist that I had to shave to fit the new one….. Bizarre!  

delcrossv

Probably put it on the fitting and slipped the whole thing up there.

jalagna

And then some genius plastered it in the ceiling. When I purchased the house in September, the oak floor is damaged and half **** repaired right above the vent. I didn’t care because the floors are getting repaired and refinished, this vent could have been bad for a while….

jalagna

Anyone have a diagram or video they can link me to so I can understand how the #76 works? I can seem to find anything on it….

delcrossv

https://documentlibrary.xylemappliedwater.com/files/2020/04/2020-April_SteamTeam.pdf

Id think you'd want a 75.

reggi

delcrossv said:

https://documentlibrary.xylemappliedwater.com/files/2020/04/2020-April_SteamTeam.pdf Id think you'd want a 75.

@jalagna I'd go with @clammy Recommendation and suggestions as posted above .... he's one of our top pros especially proficient and experienced with these precision vapor vacuum systems and their personalities..#76

delcrossv

reggi said:

delcrossv said:

https://documentlibrary.xylemappliedwater.com/files/2020/04/2020-April_SteamTeam.pdf

Id think you'd want a 75.

@jalagna I'd go with @clammy Recommendation and suggestions as posted above .... he's one of our top pros especially proficient and experienced with these precision vapor vacuum systems and their personalities..#76

Reading up, I'd go with @clammy 's recommendation also due to vapor system peculiarities. Hopefully he'll provide more of an explanation for his pick- I'd like to learn something too!

clammy

The reason I recommend it is because w a regular air vent every time your boiler shuts off the system takes air in not forming a vacuum ,which means the next cycle your boiler must expel air out of the vent by using a vacuum vent when the boiler shuts off a vacuum will be formed and even though your boiler will continue to steam while in a vacuum at a lower temp ,when your thermostat call for heat the distribution will be much quicker then with a air vent system . The big If is does the system hold a vacuum and how tight is the system and if it is relatively tight say hold a vacuum for 7 or 8 hours then there’s no reason not to try it surely increases distribution time . I would only do this on a system that I knew was originally a vapor vacuum system and was vacuum tight witnessed by myself and fairly un butchered up . The most important thing is to not be over sized on your boiler which will cause short cycling and much head aches in which case switch to standard main vents, use a vaporstat and run a low pressure and if the boiler is slightly over sized or short cycles on pressure after the mains are hot then think about a 2 stage gas valve . What really makes any steam system work properly really starts w near boiler piping and a slow exit velocity ensuring dry steam is being supplied to the mains all the rest of the system works properly and heats well even the furthest radiator but when a system is not receiving what it was designed to receive performance suffers . Another huge over looked issue is always un insulated steam mains in what was a unheard basement which is now 90 degrees . This is not something to over look and usually at some point it shall bear the fruit of it un insulation by bearing leaks which of course will have to be repaired . So in your quest of knowledge in the noblest of professions just look to the past there was and is always a reason why things where done the way they where and usually they not as complicated as many shall make it to be .
Peace and good luck clammy

clammy

Just to comment on your near boiler piping . I see a issue w the last riser being a reducing tee it should have in fact been a full sized tee after wards there should have been another tee that would have facing up and been piped as the equilizer to the differential loop and then a reducing elbow facing down which would have your Hartford loop tee and be piped back to the boilers inlet . Usually I personally like to keep my equilizer vertical and close to the boiler without excess pipe ,fitting or distance basically keeping to the manufactures diagrams and suggestion not pipe a new boiler into what’s the easiest way to be done . I see that there’s no flush valves on your wet return it may be wise to have a ball valve and drain valve installed on each end and flush the years of accumulated mud ,think of it as maintaince that’s needs to be performed every century or so . I kinda forget it was a oil burner . When you have a vacuum system you can flush when it’s under pressure or wait till is cold and break the vacuum . I usually install a 1/4 tee under the pigtail in your case and install a manual radiator bleeder so when I need to break the vacuum for what ever reason I open the air bleeder and it allows air in and doesn’t churn up all the mud on bottom when opening the drain or blowing down the low water cutoff when not under pressure or to break a vacuum . I can’t take credit for it I noticed on a old ideal oil burner w a float low water cut off so I stole the idea and kept it alive by using it hear and there other wise it would be lost with the dead guys peace and good luck clammy

jalagna

Amazing!