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Thermostat location?

gosully
gosully Member Posts: 26
We finally replaced our 106yr old asbestos covered steam boiler with a new Peerless 63-03 and were so excited to finally be warm…but are now realizing a new boiler is not the answer to all our heating problems as we are cold even though our thermostat tells us its 70° inside (this was an issue with the old boiler too) Most of our problems started after our old dial thermostat died and we replaced with a digital Honeywell RTHL221810008-more sensitive thermostat about 8 yrs ago-the house was always comfortable before that. 

We have always felt the thermostat is in a less than optimum location. Technically it is in the right place, 1st floor, inside wall, radiator in that room is on opposite side of the room. However that location is directly above the boiler and if you know old houses there is very little between one floor and the next and wide pine floorboards have wide gaps. Add the fact that the wire running from the boiler to thermostat runs directly above the boiler vent to the chimney which is a huge 3 fireplace center chimney (brick hold heat really well!) and the wall the thermostat is attached to is located next to the fireplace hearth which get nice and warm with the boiler sitting right below it. The wall itself is plaster/lathe and hollow so I’m sure warm air from below rises through the wall. 

As things stand now, when the thermostat calls for heat, it reaches temp quickly-within 10mins- and shuts down before surrounding rooms and upper floor rooms are warm. Also we have adjusted vents on radiators but it has only helped a little. 

So two questions, would a different location or a different thermostat help? What brand & model thermostat is recommended-we don’t need programmable or wifi-just basic type. 

I do realize that there is more involved regarding balancing a system but it seems the thermostat is easy to replace with something more compatible and relocation seems necessary. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! 


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Comments

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,350
    edited November 8
    What pressure are you running the boiler at?

    If the T-Stat is digital set your Cycles per hr at 1.

    You could try covering the radiator in that room with a blanket and see if it helps. If it does change the vent.

    Code here required fireproofing above the boiler.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,985
    gosully said:

    We finally replaced our 106yr old asbestos covered steam boiler with a new Peerless 63-03 and were so excited to finally be warm…but are now realizing a new boiler is not the answer to all our heating problems as we are cold even though our thermostat tells us its 70° inside (this was an issue with the old boiler too) Most of our problems started after our old dial thermostat died and we replaced with a digital Honeywell RTHL221810008-more sensitive thermostat about 8 yrs ago-the house was always comfortable before that. 

    We have always felt the thermostat is in a less than optimum location. Technically it is in the right place, 1st floor, inside wall, radiator in that room is on opposite side of the room. However that location is directly above the boiler and if you know old houses there is very little between one floor and the next and wide pine floorboards have wide gaps. Add the fact that the wire running from the boiler to thermostat runs directly above the boiler vent to the chimney which is a huge 3 fireplace center chimney (brick hold heat really well!) and the wall the thermostat is attached to is located next to the fireplace hearth which get nice and warm with the boiler sitting right below it. The wall itself is plaster/lathe and hollow so I’m sure warm air from below rises through the wall. 

    As things stand now, when the thermostat calls for heat, it reaches temp quickly-within 10mins- and shuts down before surrounding rooms and upper floor rooms are warm. Also we have adjusted vents on radiators but it has only helped a little. 


    So two questions, would a different location or a different thermostat help? What brand & model thermostat is recommended-we don’t need programmable or wifi-just basic type. 

    I do realize that there is more involved regarding balancing a system but it seems the thermostat is easy to replace with something more compatible and relocation seems necessary. 

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated! 


    I would use a Honeywell that supports Redlink and then add a few Redlink wireless indoor sensors to it in the areas you want to monitor. It would then average the temperatures across those sensors. You could do 3, 4 or 5 etc.

    I run 3 + the thermostat in my house, but you can disable the sensor in the thermostat if you feel it's swaying it too far in the wrong direction.

    The Prestige and VisionPro thermostats support this I believe.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,165
    If the new thermostat is in about the same place as the old one, the first thing I would check would be the cycles per hour setting. Most digital thermostats have that, and though it's a miserable replacement for the old anticipators it does make a difference.

    The setting is probably buried in the setup menus somewhere -- you'll need the manual for the thermostat. It should be set to one cycle per hour.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,847
    You mention concern about the boiler heating it up. How well insulated are all the steam pipes in the basement?
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    Thank you for all the quick repossess I will follow up when I have answers to your questions. I have put a digital thermometer in an upstairs bedroom-currently the heat has been off for about an hour. Tstat currently reads 71-in bedroom it is 59…

    Pecmsg- The times I have looked, I have yet to see the pressure gauge move at all that being said..I will make a point to sit and watch next time it runs. 

    To my knowledge There is not setting to choose different cycles but I will reread the manual or just call Honeywell. 

    Thank you everyone!


  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    KC_Jones said:
    You mention concern about the boiler heating it up. How well insulated are all the steam pipes in the basement?
    They for the most part are not. What little is, is over 35rys old and ironically on the pipe leading to the hottest rad-the dining room where the tstat is
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,847
    I would suggest this is certainly not a thermostat issue, but a balance issue with venting. Virtually nothing you do with the thermostat will change the 71 downstairs, 59 upstairs problem. You might make it slightly better upstairs by moving the thermostat, but the differential between floors will remain unless venting is addressed. Here are a few more questions in addition to the pipe insulation question.

    What is your main venting in the basement like?
    What vents are on the radiators?
    Are all the radiator vents the same?

    As far as cycled on the thermostat, if I found the right manual for the thermostat you have, you are correct there isn't anything for Cycles Per Hour (CPH), but there is an advanced setting for the system type. See the screenshot I attached. My interpretation of the Honeywell documents are that the number for this setting actually equates to CPH, they just don't call it that on the more basic thermostats. Review the screenshot and if this matches your thermostat make sure this setting is correct.


    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    Voyager
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    So the boiler ran for 12mins..tstat reached 71..is set at 70. Pressure needle never moved off 0.. Upstairs bedroom temp reads 61 😰 
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,847
    edited December 2
    gosully said:


    KC_Jones said:

    You mention concern about the boiler heating it up. How well insulated are all the steam pipes in the basement?


    They for the most part are not. What little is, is over 35rys old and ironically on the pipe leading to the hottest rad-the dining room where the tstat is

    That would be a situation you want to resolve. Those pipes should be insulated.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    edited November 9
    KC_Jones said:
    I would suggest this is certainly not a thermostat issue, but a balance issue with venting. Virtually nothing you do with the thermostat will change the 71 downstairs, 59 upstairs problem. You might make it slightly better upstairs by moving the thermostat, but the differential between floors will remain unless venting is addressed. Here are a few more questions in addition to the pipe insulation question. What is your main venting in the basement like? What vents are on the radiators? Are all the radiator vents the same? As far as cycled on the thermostat, if I found the right manual for the thermostat you have, you are correct there isn't anything for Cycles Per Hour (CPH), but there is an advanced setting for the system type. See the screenshot I attached. My interpretation of the Honeywell documents are that the number for this setting actually equates to CPH, they just don't call it that on the more basic thermostats. Review the screenshot and if this matches your thermostat make sure this setting is correct.
    Thank you for this manual info. Our 5 setting is set at 2 so I think that is correct. I agree we definitely need to have the system balanced and there are different vents on rads. We had a few that were not working after installing the new boiler. They fixed the problem in those rads. They are Vent-Rite #1. Some of the original rads have different vents. The dial is on the top and it is rounded-I don’t know the type. All the rads upstairs were installed by a friend many years after we moved into the house (no heat on 2nd floor when purchased 35yrs ago) they were from salvage and have an old vents. When we replaced the boiler this month the vent in the basement was not replaced. Our friend (master plumber) installed with our son and his who are both Apprentices. So now we have this predicament..how to not keep bothering him because things aren’t going as expected and we are hoping to get some guidance here and not bring in someone to take a look and cause hurt feelings🙏🏻😰
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,165
    Insulate those basement steam pipes! Oddly, that will help the balance.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,847
    If you have main vents, need to know which ones and how many. To fix balance this is where it starts. If you post how long and what pipe size the mains are, we can recommend the proper amount of main venting.

    "Our friend (master plumber) installed with our son and his who are both Apprentices"

    I'll be honest, based on what I've seen on this website, and in person in my own town, that statement makes me nervous about not only the problems you are stating, but the installation as a whole. Venting is basic, if the master plumber doesn't understand that, what other bigger items do they possibly not understand?

    How were the radiators installed on the second floor sized? Was a heatloss done room by room, for the entire house? Then compare existing radiation sizing to those numbers, then the new radiation sized accordingly? I think I know the answer, but that's water under the bridge at this point.

    The little bit you have posted is a lot to unpack to get the system operating properly.

    New boiler, piped how? Sized how?
    Added radiation sized how?
    Dramatic system imbalance, could be venting, could be mismatched radiation, or combination of both.
    Main venting that is?

    I hear what you are saying about hurting feelings, but I think you need to ignore the thermostat for now, and address the actual problems.

    Next step for me is pictures, pictures of the boiler, piping, and main venting in the basement. The information on the mains, length and pipe size. After main venting is addressed then radiator venting can be looked at. Either all adjustable or figure out proper size and buy varying different vents. If I had mine to do over I'd go adjustable. Avoid Heat Timer Varivalve, far too aggressive. Hoffman 1A can be challenging to adjust due to too much slop. Either Ventrite or the Maid-O-Mist changeable orifice vent are the ones that are typically recommended around here.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    I will quickly answer some of your questions. We were young and so was our plumber  friend when these radiators were installed—every one was installed because were had another baby to put in an unheated room lol. I got each radiator based on the window size it was to sit under soo …

    The new boiler was sized as it should’ve been by the plumbing supply house in Boston. I gave them room sizes with ceiling heights ( upper rooms have pitched roof) sent pics of each radiator and their dimensions as well as the types/number of windows/doors. The main house has a full basement the L kitchen has a granite foundation crawl space -there is only one rad in the kitchen and its pipe unfortunatley runs from boiler to radiator in that unheated space—bad I kno—its something we need to address when we can spend the money to deal with it. 

    I will send pic of boiler set up and vent in the basement. My understanding is it was piped according to the install manual and pipe kit that came with the boiler.  

    I am not sure how to determine the pipe size. In terms of returns I assume you mean pipes returning water to boiler—There are two. 

    Thank you for all if this help! 


  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    Insulate those basement steam pipes! Oddly, that will help the balance.
    I can understand that-it makes sense. What is recommended to use to insulate and do we insulate everything from the boiler up? Our pipes to the second floor run outside the walls on the 1st floor and are bare as well. 
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,985
    gosully said:



    Insulate those basement steam pipes! Oddly, that will help the balance.

    I can understand that-it makes sense. What is recommended to use to insulate and do we insulate everything from the boiler up? Our pipes to the second floor run outside the walls on the 1st floor and are bare as well. 

    Insulate everything that's not in the livingspace.
    If the basement is finished, try to insulate most of the mains and piping near the boiler. I'd recommend 1" thick fiberglass.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    gosully
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    Its a Vent-Rite 3
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,847
    The only issue I see in the piping is the 2 mains are tee'd together, those should have been brought down into the header individually. That could create challenges with balancing. Also looks like one main is counterflow and one is parallel flow.

    How old is the install? Water feeder is showing 4 gallons, is that just this year so far? If so that's a bit excessive and could be the old vents leaking steam. Add that to the list to keep an eye on, water usage. On a boiler that size I'd say max of 1 gallon per month.

    Those vents are almost certainly undersized on the mains. For pipe diameter, if the outside diameter is 2 3/8" that's 2" pipe, if it's 2 7/8" that's 2 1/2" pipe, if it's 3 1/2" that's 3" pipe. So check the mains for diameter.

    For length on the parallel flow, measure from the tee to the end of main, usually where the pipe reduces in size after last radiator, and returns to boiler.

    For the counterflow, measure from tee to the end, it shouldn't have a return, at least based on what I'm seeing in thosepictures.

    Post measurements and we will be able to recommend main venting. I will say, it appears you have an 1/8" connection for main venting which would limit the max to a Gorton #2 vent, anything more wouldn't do anything. That said you may need less to balance the mains properly.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    KC_Jones said:
    The only issue I see in the piping is the 2 mains are tee'd together, those should have been brought down into the header individually. That could create challenges with balancing. Also looks like one main is counterflow and one is parallel flow. How old is the install? Water feeder is showing 4 gallons, is that just this year so far? If so that's a bit excessive and could be the old vents leaking steam. Add that to the list to keep an eye on, water usage. On a boiler that size I'd say max of 1 gallon per month. Those vents are almost certainly undersized on the mains. For pipe diameter, if the outside diameter is 2 3/8" that's 2" pipe, if it's 2 7/8" that's 2 1/2" pipe, if it's 3 1/2" that's 3" pipe. So check the mains for diameter. For length on the parallel flow, measure from the tee to the end of main, usually where the pipe reduces in size after last radiator, and returns to boiler. For the counterflow, measure from tee to the end, it shouldn't have a return, at least based on what I'm seeing in thosepictures. Post measurements and we will be able to recommend main venting. I will say, it appears you have an 1/8" connection for main venting which would limit the max to a Gorton #2 vent, anything more wouldn't do anything. That said you may need less to balance the mains properly.
    Thank you for all of this info. Of course some of the terminology is beyond my understanding so it may take a bit for me to process all of this and get back to you. The boiler was finished and operating on 11/2(7 days ago).  Re: the water, I noticed the water level had dropped significantly dropped a  day after it had been running. Plumber friend came back, we checked for leaks found one issue with a leaking rad and fixed it, replaced those two valves in rads that werent heating, added 2 gals which brought the count to 4. I dont know if that 4 glas includes to initial fill-seems like it wouldnt and I dont really know why. 

    I can’t thank you and everyone else enough for all this help. 

    I will post again with more questions regarding what you need me to answer on measurements. 
    KC_Jones
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 1,478
    can we get a close up of the Ptrol, (the grey box to the left of the dial gage)
    it looks like it may be set too high,
    and if it is it could be slamming vents shut, not allowing heat where you want it
  • bburd
    bburd Member Posts: 210
    One important point that is often overlooked is to seal the hole in the wall behind the thermostat where the wire comes through. If this is not done, drafts coming through the wall will affect the thermostat.

    Bburd
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    neilc said:
    can we get a close up of the Ptrol, (the grey box to the left of the dial gage) it looks like it may be set too high, and if it is it could be slamming vents shut, not allowing heat where you want it
    Sorry for the delay. I think this is what you asked for?
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    gosully said:
    So KC JONES, I am struggling with measuring pipe sizes and the linear measurements. I dont kno what Main, Parallel or counter flow refer to.   When I wrap a tape measurer around the pipe coming out for boiler its diameter is 7.5” obv not near what you listed so Im doing something wrong. If you can offer some guidance I will try again.
    The elbows say D 2
    Here is a general diagram of the piping. Purple is main (that seems to bee all the same size but there is som insulation I will need to remove to be sure. 
    Green is pipes to radiators. 
    Red is pipes returning cooled steam/water from rads back to boiler-I think?

    Again thank you 

  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,847
    Pressure is set ridiculously too high. I'm guessing it wasn't adjusted when installed, mine was maxed out from factory. That is to be set on any install, and typically as low as possible.

    Turn the screw on top until that is as low as it can go without disconnecting the internal linkage. Also remove the cover, there is a white wheel inside that should be set to 1, if it's not change it to 1, you need to change both things, not just one of them.

    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    KC_Jones said:
    Pressure is set ridiculously too high. I'm guessing it wasn't adjusted when installed, mine was maxed out from factory. That is to be set on any install, and typically as low as possible. Turn the screw on top until that is as low as it can go without disconnecting the internal linkage. Also remove the cover, there is a white wheel inside that should be set to 1, if it's not change it to 1, you need to change both things, not just one of them.
    Ok I will look at it and follow your instructions. Can I ask what the impact is when changed?  Just trying to understand what I am doing. Its kind of scary tinkering with something so technical and eXpensive
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,847
    It may not change anything, if the boiler is well sized, and the venting and everything else is up to par, you should never get close to that pressure. That said, you don't want to be higher than 1-1.5 PSI ever, it serves no purpose other than wasting fuel.

    Adjusting that should be standard procedure for the installer no matter who that is. Posting that comment not to beat up your installer, but for anyone that comes along reading this for general information.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    ethicalpaul
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,847
    gosully said:


    gosully said:
    So KC JONES, I am struggling with measuring pipe sizes and the linear measurements. I dont kno what Main, Parallel or counter flow refer to.   When I wrap a tape measurer around the pipe coming out for boiler its diameter is 7.5” obv not near what you listed so Im doing something wrong. If you can offer some guidance I will try again.
    The elbows say D 2
    Here is a general diagram of the piping. Purple is main (that seems to bee all the same size but there is som insulation I will need to remove to be sure. 
    Green is pipes to radiators. 
    Red is pipes returning cooled steam/water from rads back to boiler-I think?

    Again thank you 



    So you are measuring circumference not diameter. That's fine we can work with that too. With a circumference of 7.5", that will be a diameter of 2 3/8" actual, for a nominal pipe size of 2".

    Yes pipe sizing is a bit nutty.

    The layout you have is interesting. So for venting, measure from the tee at the boiler, to the last radiator take off. Only count the purple in your diagram, the rest don't matter for main venting.

    How long is the purple running towards the kitchen? That is the side that appears to be counterflow. If it's really short, and there isn't a place for main venting, it might be possible to just use radiator vents, but it might take some fiddling to get right.

    Counter flow: Steam and condensate travel in opposite directions within the pipe.
    Parallel flow: Steam and condensate travel in same direction within the pipe.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 3,139
    edited November 10
    So you are measuring circumference not diameter. That's fine we can work with that too. With a circumference of 7.5", that will be a diameter of 2 3/8" actual, for a nominal pipe size of 2".


    Note the "2" stamped on the elbow :) (I did see you saw it already)
    1 pipe Peerless 63-03L in Cedar Grove, NJ, coal > oil > NG
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,165
    @KC_Jones 's comment on the high pressure not changing anything in many situations is true enough, so far as heating is concerned. What he might have added is that that high a pressure will shorten the life of any vents or traps in the system -- sometimes quite dramatically.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • neilc
    neilc Member Posts: 1,478
    yeah, wow,
    so as KC and Jamie said,
    TURN THAT Ptrol DOWN, all the way, down,
    did you notice what pressure the boiler had gotten up to ?
    10psi ???
    you may have damaged your rad and main vents, they may be sealed shut, not letting air out, and that means no HEAT IN,

    after bottoming the Ptrol scale, let it run, and go to each rad and vent, and if they're not hot, give them a little gentle tap, tap,
    if your lucky some, may, start working,
    main vents also,
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    KC_Jones said:
    gosully said:
    So KC JONES, I am struggling with measuring pipe sizes and the linear measurements. I dont kno what Main, Parallel or counter flow refer to.   When I wrap a tape measurer around the pipe coming out for boiler its diameter is 7.5” obv not near what you listed so Im doing something wrong. If you can offer some guidance I will try again.
    The elbows say D 2
    Here is a general diagram of the piping. Purple is main (that seems to bee all the same size but there is som insulation I will need to remove to be sure. 
    Green is pipes to radiators. 
    Red is pipes returning cooled steam/water from rads back to boiler-I think?

    Again thank you 

    So you are measuring circumference not diameter. That's fine we can work with that too. With a circumference of 7.5", that will be a diameter of 2 3/8" actual, for a nominal pipe size of 2". Yes pipe sizing is a bit nutty. The layout you have is interesting. So for venting, measure from the tee at the boiler, to the last radiator take off. Only count the purple in your diagram, the rest don't matter for main venting. How long is the purple running towards the kitchen? That is the side that appears to be counterflow. If it's really short, and there isn't a place for main venting, it might be possible to just use radiator vents, but it might take some fiddling to get right. Counter flow: Steam and condensate travel in opposite directions within the pipe. Parallel flow: Steam and condensate travel in same direction within the pipe.
    So sorry for the delay getting back to you. Below is the diagram-I have added all pipe lengths (in inches)-not just the main. A small adj to where the pipe to kitchen rad connects to main. I also measured circumference of the pipes-they are not noted on diagram but they are

    On right side main
    5” from main to dining room rad and hall rad
    6” from main to kitchen w decrease to 4 1/4” to bedroom

    On left side main
    4 1/4” To study, bath, living room and bedroom rads

    I hope this is the info you need. 
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    Following up on things here  We have lowered the setting on the vent on the dining room radiator down to 3, opened the vent to 9 in our living room radiator and replaced the vent in one of the bedrooms which was not heating quickly  to help balance the heat throughout the house. Also insulated all pipes, including the header pipes.  This has helped a lot. Now we are finding the boiler needing even more water than before. 

    I am hoping to get some feed back on balancing the system properly (rather than my ad hoc method). I’m wondering if anyone has any thoughts on where to go from here based on the diagram with pipe measurements in my above post.  

    I have not adjusted the setting on the pressuretrol yet-I have been nervous to tinker with anything technical prior to Thanksgiving-didn’t want any complications with company coming. 

    I had to add almost a gallon of water to boiler today..since yesterday! ( Autogeed not connected yet) I cannot find any major leaks anywhere. If I hold a mirror over over the vents I get a small amount of condensation toward the very end of the heating cycle on older and newly replaced vents so I don’t know what to make of that. 

    Any guidance would be very much appreciated. 
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,847
    In the current location of that vent I would switch that to a Gorton #2 vent, I don't think that connection will support anything bigger than that.

    On the other main, you could install a Gorton #1 vent, maybe two, but not sure if you have a place for one. If no place for a main vent anywhere on that run, things may get a bit more challenging.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 17,165
    You need to find the leaks. Oddly, it can be harder on a one pipe steam system, as the steam pipes are hot and leakage evaporates very fast. Also, while a gallon seems like a lot (and is, so far as the boiler is concerned!) it isn't a lot at a little leak: 1 drop of water every 20 seconds adds up to a gallon in a day.

    Besides the vents, which may not be much of a problem, common culprits are the stems of the shutoff valves on the radiators and the unions where the valve joins the radiator spud. For that matter, a drain valve on the boiler which doesn't quite shut off could do it, too.

    On the vent sizing -- mathematics is a wonderful thing, but the best approach is to get somewhat close, and then adjust to taste. Always remembering that it usually works better to slow down overenthusiastic radiators, rather than trying to speed up underperforming ones.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    ethicalpaul
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    Thank you for that info. 

    Replacement of the old vent will be doable for sure. I will look into have the additional vent being installed by a professional. 

    Not sure what to do about losing so much water. 

    Very frustrated at this point😞


  • Chris_L
    Chris_L Member Posts: 220
    gosully said:

    I have not adjusted the setting on the pressuretrol yet-I have been nervous to tinker with anything technical prior to Thanksgiving-didn’t want any complications with company coming. 


    You have to turn down the pressure as others have suggested. Your system will lose a lot more water at high pressure than at low pressure.

    Is the boiler building pressure? Do you ever see the gauge rise? Your boiler puts out 308 square feet of steam. How does that compare to the attached radiation (sum of the square feet of all the radiators)? Also your main vent (or vents?) looks too small.

    You need to get these issues addressed and then see what your water consumption is.
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    edited December 2
    Chris_L said:
    I have not adjusted the setting on the pressuretrol yet-I have been nervous to tinker with anything technical prior to Thanksgiving-didn’t want any complications with company coming. 
    You have to turn down the pressure as others have suggested. Your system will lose a lot more water at high pressure than at low pressure. Is the boiler building pressure? Do you ever see the gauge rise? Your boiler puts out 308 square feet of steam. How does that compare to the attached radiation (sum of the square feet of all the radiators)? Also your main vent (or vents?) looks too small. You need to get these issues addressed and then see what your water consumption is.  

    Well that is a good question regarding what the pressure gets to…our plumber told us it ( the one w the gauge) doesn't need to be connected??

    See the photo below. The gauge has never moved off of zero. Note there are wires coming from the pressuretrol that are not connected to anything. 

    So the main vent says Vent-rite 3T. KCJones recommends a #2? I of course don’t know if a 2is bigger than a 3 in the world of steam vents.


    Thank you for your response. I will keep looking for leaks in the meantime. Any recommendations on strategies. I haven’t detected any visually.
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    You need to find the leaks. Oddly, it can be harder on a one pipe steam system, as the steam pipes are hot and leakage evaporates very fast. Also, while a gallon seems like a lot (and is, so far as the boiler is concerned!) it isn't a lot at a little leak: 1 drop of water every 20 seconds adds up to a gallon in a day. Besides the vents, which may not be much of a problem, common culprits are the stems of the shutoff valves on the radiators and the unions where the valve joins the radiator spud. For that matter, a drain valve on the boiler which doesn't quite shut off could do it, too. On the vent sizing -- mathematics is a wonderful thing, but the best approach is to get somewhat close, and then adjust to taste. Always remembering that it usually works better to slow down overenthusiastic radiators, rather than trying to speed up underperforming ones.
    Thank you. Yes we first slowed down the radiator closest to the boiler ( on the main with no vent). It is 10’ from the thermostat and both are located directly above the boiler. Our house is over 175yrs old so very little between the boiler below -just wide pine flooring a similar sub floor and both with very large gaps. Not to mention the enormous brick chimney where the boiler flue is located on the same wall as the thermostat. 

    We did speed up rad in living room and hall to warm them up quicker and that was effective. 

    Very interesting about how a small drip and cause such high consumption of water. I wish I could find the culprit! What I do know is we had this issue with the old boiler over the last couple of years and really blamed the age 108yrs old!). Imagine our frustration to be experiencing the same issue with the new boiler😡
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 4,847
    Couple things, if the pressuretrol is indeed not wired, it must be wired, that is a safety device and anyone telling you otherwise, is honestly, a fool. It appears to be wired in that picture, but I see something else way more concerning in that photo.

    The spill switch (wired device sitting on the low water cut off) for the flue appears to be wired, but not installed, again that's another safety device in case the flue gases start spilling out from a blocked flue. Basically shuts the boiler down for that situation, without it, you could dump CO into your house like crazy in that scneario. This is no joke, and again whoever just laid it there is a complete fool. I know that's harsh, but it shows that person should not be touching this equipment...EVER, professionally or otherwise. These mistakes literally can kill people.

    Make sure you have a properly functioning CO detector in the basement, and living space.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
    ethicalpaul
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,985
    Afraid that LWCO is going to get dangerously hot?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    ethicalpaul
  • gosully
    gosully Member Posts: 26
    edited November 30
    KC_Jones said:
    Couple things, if the pressuretrol is indeed not wired, it must be wired, that is a safety device and anyone telling you otherwise, is honestly, a fool. It appears to be wired in that picture, but I see something else way more concerning in that photo. The spill switch (wired device sitting on the low water cut off) for the flue appears to be wired, but not installed, again that's another safety device in case the flue gases start spilling out from a blocked flue. Basically shuts the boiler down for that situation, without it, you could dump CO into your house like crazy in that scneario. This is no joke, and again whoever just laid it there is a complete fool. I know that's harsh, but it shows that person should not be touching this equipment...EVER, professionally or otherwise. These mistakes literally can kill people. Make sure you have a properly functioning CO detector in the basement, and living space.
    I don’t even know what to say about all of this info. 
    We do have a CO detector and in living spaces, fortunately.  Our electrician installed them when he wired the boiler. 

    I am curious, why doesn’t the pressure gauge ever register anything, considering how incorrectly high the press is set on the pressuretrol?

    It would seem like the best thing to do is have a steam expert come in and make things right. I’m beginning to feel like this is more than a homeowner should take on😰 

    Actually…take a look at the pic below. Something is hooked up from boiler to flue