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Which pipe is the water supply for the house, where a descaler should go?

numberforty1
numberforty1 Member Posts: 97
edited June 29 in THE MAIN WALL
I have a strange setup where one pipe comes into the home through the floor, and would seem to be the water intake, but it is quickly routed into a wall opposite my boiler and water heater, and does not seem connected to either of them. Can anyone tell from these photos where the water intake is?

I want to put a descaler on the supply line.

The pictures below show two sides of the boiler room - on one side, the assumed intake going into the opposite wall, on the other side is the boiler. Does anyone know why the intake is going straight into the opposite wall instead of going to the boiler? There is nothing but the garage on the other side of that wall.













Comments

  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 16,604
    Frankly, that's pretty hopeless from the two pictures. Is this a well water supply? City or town water?
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 3,677
    Looks like someone removed and bypassed your meter.
  • numberforty1
    numberforty1 Member Posts: 97

    Frankly, that's pretty hopeless from the two pictures. Is this a well water supply? City or town water?

    What does "hopeless" mean? This is Cliffside, NJ water. Please explain if there is something that would be more helpful
  • numberforty1
    numberforty1 Member Posts: 97
    mattmia2 said:

    Looks like someone removed and bypassed your meter.

    New house...any thoughts on the question in the description?
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 3,677
    What do you mean? it come up out of the sleeve in the floor from the city main, the electrical grounding electrode system is bonded to it right after the sleeve to use the water service as a grounding electrode, it goes to a pair of meter unions that have that piece of pvc pipe between them, then that pex goes out to the house.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 3,677
    the water feed for the boiler is connected just off to the right of your photo, that pressure reducing valve and check valve connected to the tee above the expansion tank is the water feed to the boiler.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,848
    We need pictures from much further back so we can see the whole picture.

    All of the piping etc...
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 16,604
    What I mean by hopeless is that there's no way I'd even try to guess from the pictures. However, that said, @mattmia2 may have the best guess. In which case... where is the meter? And why isn't it right there?
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • numberforty1
    numberforty1 Member Posts: 97
    edited June 28
    mattmia2 said:

    What do you mean? it come up out of the sleeve in the floor from the city main, the electrical grounding electrode system is bonded to it right after the sleeve to use the water service as a grounding electrode, it goes to a pair of meter unions that have that piece of pvc pipe between them, then that pex goes out to the house.

    Thanks @mattmia2, I meant do you know which pipe is the water intake, thanks for answering. What I don't understand is that it goes straight into the wall, away from the boiler and everything, as you can see in the picture. Any idea why it does that, and how the water gets eventually routed back to the boiler?

    I want to put a descaler on the intake, so it sounds like the best place is on either side of that PVC then, correct? The meter isn't there because the water company still hasn't installed it. New house.
  • numberforty1
    numberforty1 Member Posts: 97
    @Jamie Hall So you can't tell if that pipe coming up from the floor is the main water intake for the house? The meter isn't there because the water company still hasn't installed it. New house.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,848
    I was told all new installations were getting the meters installed outside in NJ.

    Why would yours in a new house get installed inside?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 435
    Do you see that the supposed incoming waterline (blue pex) penetrates the wall in TWO places?
    Why is the blue pex pipe not visible in the boiler room? We need a better, more complete picture of the boiler room.
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 2,246
    Hi, Maybe a silly question, but can you contact whoever built this to get clarification? You shouldn’t have to guess.

    Yours, Larry
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 9,693
    The pipe coming through the floor looks like the water supply. Since the boiler room is finished off the pipe going into the wall is not exposed and is probably hidden in the wall and ceiling.

    This doesn't look that unusual to me.

    The water meter will never be installed outside in New Jersey it would freeze, it's not California
    mattmia2ChrisJnumberforty1
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,331
    Hey there @numberforty1
    From the looks of things in your first picture, the PVC pipe that is coming up through the floor is a "protective sleeve" that is protecting the water main that is inside that PVC pipe.
    The other PVC pipe that is currently on your (water main)

    is installed with two water meter adapters. Pictured here. That PVC pipe installed with the meter adapters and white handle ball valves on your water main is what can be called a meter spud. That PVC meter spud is sized to the dimensions of a future water meter.

    Is this a new house or some type of new construction? Do you have a water company? It looks like you need to answer those two questions to communicate what you want.

    I would hazard a guess that those two white-handled ball valves are your main shut-offs to the house.
    From your pictures, you might need to remove some sheetrock to trace where the water main is going.
    Maybe send a wider angle picture so the view of the water feeder is showing. Maybe your blue pex tubing comes out of the wall or the ceiling and is supplying the boiler there. It should be.
    numberforty1
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,848
    The pipe coming through the floor looks like the water supply. Since the boiler room is finished off the pipe going into the wall is not exposed and is probably hidden in the wall and ceiling. This doesn't look that unusual to me. The water meter will never be installed outside in New Jersey it would freeze, it's not California

    They get installed down in a pit.
    I just had my service done and asked many questions.

    I was told ALL new services get the meter installed outside.  But I'll let the water company know you said it will never happen.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,331
    ChrisJ said:



    The pipe coming through the floor looks like the water supply. Since the boiler room is finished off the pipe going into the wall is not exposed and is probably hidden in the wall and ceiling.

    This doesn't look that unusual to me.

    The water meter will never be installed outside in New Jersey it would freeze, it's not California

    They get installed down in a pit.
    I just had my service done and asked many questions.

    I was told ALL new services get the meter installed outside.  But I'll let the water company know you said it will never happen.




    @ChrisJ I agree with @EBEBRATT-Ed
    In Jersey!!? How do they keep it from freezing in a pit in New Jersey? That's the question I would be asking them.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,848
    Intplm. said:
    The pipe coming through the floor looks like the water supply. Since the boiler room is finished off the pipe going into the wall is not exposed and is probably hidden in the wall and ceiling. This doesn't look that unusual to me. The water meter will never be installed outside in New Jersey it would freeze, it's not California

    They get installed down in a pit.
    I just had my service done and asked many questions.

    I was told ALL new services get the meter installed outside.  But I'll let the water company know you said it will never happen.


    @ChrisJ I agree with @EBEBRATT-Ed In Jersey!!? How do they keep it from freezing in a pit in New Jersey? That's the question I would be asking them.


    Why would I be asking them?  It's their rules.
    I guess it could vary as we have several different water companies but this is what mine wants.




    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • numberforty1
    numberforty1 Member Posts: 97
    psb75 said:

    Do you see that the supposed incoming waterline (blue pex) penetrates the wall in TWO places?
    Why is the blue pex pipe not visible in the boiler room? We need a better, more complete picture of the boiler room.

    Yes it does, why? Everything you are seeing here is in the same small room, hence the difficulty in taking wider pictures. See the additional photos. The only blue pipe is the one you see. What does that tell you?
  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,331
    It's their rule certainly. But I guess I'm looking out for you. You will be the one without water or billed for the water leak on the house side of the meter. Hoping that it's just one less argument and headache to eliminate ahead of time.
  • numberforty1
    numberforty1 Member Posts: 97
    Intplm. said:

    Hey there @numberforty1

    Is this a new house or some type of new construction? Do you have a water company? It looks like you need to answer those two questions to communicate what you want.

    I would hazard a guess that those two white-handled ball valves are your main shut-offs to the house.
    From your pictures, you might need to remove some sheetrock to trace where the water main is going.
    Maybe send a wider angle picture so the view of the water feeder is showing. Maybe your blue pex tubing comes out of the wall or the ceiling and is supplying the boiler there. It should be.

    Thank you, yes like I mentioned its a new house. I added photos - the only blue pipe is the one you see, everything in the pictures is in the same small room. I just want to know where to put the descaler - sounds like I should put it on the pipe on either side of the meter spud, yes?

  • Intplm.
    Intplm. Member Posts: 1,331
    No. Install it on the supply side of the water meter, if your intention is to treat the entire house that's the best place for it. As soon as the water enters the house after the meter. :)
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,848
    Intplm. said:
    It's their rule certainly. But I guess I'm looking out for you. You will be the one without water or billed for the water leak on the house side of the meter. Hoping that it's just one less argument and headache to eliminate ahead of time.
    I'm not a new service, this service has been active since 1881 so my meter is still in the basement.  That's for new services so far.  I've heard zero complaints.


    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Intplm.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 11,848
    Hey there @numberforty1 Is this a new house or some type of new construction? Do you have a water company? It looks like you need to answer those two questions to communicate what you want. I would hazard a guess that those two white-handled ball valves are your main shut-offs to the house. From your pictures, you might need to remove some sheetrock to trace where the water main is going. Maybe send a wider angle picture so the view of the water feeder is showing. Maybe your blue pex tubing comes out of the wall or the ceiling and is supplying the boiler there. It should be.
    Thank you, yes like I mentioned its a new house. I added photos - the only blue pipe is the one you see, everything in the pictures is in the same small room. I just want to know where to put the descaler - sounds like I should put it on the pipe on either side of the meter spud, yes?
    Whatever you add make sure it's on your side of the meter.

    They tend to frown upon things added before the meter.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Intplm.Canucker
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 6,790
    The pipe coming out of the floor is likely coming from the city water. The plumbers probably ran one feed to the domestic water cold and the other to the inlet of the water heater. It is common to route the pipes around in the framing, it is cleaner and protects the pipes from damage. If you close the valve you will probably figure out what goes where.
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,195
    Check front yard for meter box. Meter pits can be installed even in Western Massachusetts without freezing. They simply need to be deeper the colder it gets in your area. The pvc pipe is a spacer for where a meter could be. Either yours isn't installed yet, or it was located outside,  or it is there for a lawn irrigation system and your potable meteris elsewhere, or someone removed the meter during construction to avoid paying for the water used. 
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
    ChrisJ
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,493
    What sort of descaler, are you wanting to install?
    Boilers generally should not be fed with water softened by a salt bed.—NBC
    Charlie from wmassmattmia2
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,216

    The pipe coming through the floor looks like the water supply. Since the boiler room is finished off the pipe going into the wall is not exposed and is probably hidden in the wall and ceiling.

    This doesn't look that unusual to me.

    The water meter will never be installed outside in New Jersey it would freeze, it's not California

    If the meter would freeze then so would the pipe!

    Eastern LI 3' below surface it doesnt freeze. My meter is at the street and read electronically.
    ChrisJCharlie from wmass
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 2,216
    pecmsg said:

    The pipe coming through the floor looks like the water supply. Since the boiler room is finished off the pipe going into the wall is not exposed and is probably hidden in the wall and ceiling.

    This doesn't look that unusual to me.

    The water meter will never be installed outside in New Jersey it would freeze, it's not California

    If the meter would freeze then so would the pipe!

    Eastern LI 3' below surface it doesnt freeze. My meter is at the street and read electronically.
    Leadville Colorado the frost line was 6' below the surface.
  • numberforty1
    numberforty1 Member Posts: 97
    Zman said:

    The pipe coming out of the floor is likely coming from the city water. The plumbers probably ran one feed to the domestic water cold and the other to the inlet of the water heater. It is common to route the pipes around in the framing, it is cleaner and protects the pipes from damage. If you close the valve you will probably figure out what goes where.

    Thanks, can I close any of the valves without worrying about damaging the boiler or heater or anything?
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,107
    pecmsg said:

    pecmsg said:

    The pipe coming through the floor looks like the water supply. Since the boiler room is finished off the pipe going into the wall is not exposed and is probably hidden in the wall and ceiling.

    This doesn't look that unusual to me.

    The water meter will never be installed outside in New Jersey it would freeze, it's not California

    If the meter would freeze then so would the pipe!

    Eastern LI 3' below surface it doesnt freeze. My meter is at the street and read electronically.
    Leadville Colorado the frost line was 6' below the surface.

    Leadville...And that is why i had to install my 100 feet of Waterline in Leadville at 10 feet with 4" of insulation on top of it..Just after i dug and Installed it they changed it back to 8 feet. :s
    pecmsg
  • psb75
    psb75 Member Posts: 435
    It's 'best practice' to know what the valve is shutting off when you shut it. Same for turning on a valve. Have someone who knows, i.d. the valves and then label them. A little bit of trouble initially, but will prevent a lot of trouble 'down the road.'