Possible Bad Boiler

SLC

Need an expert option as I'm having a hard time finding a company to come look at my boiler. Most of the companies either say they don't service steam heat or they are too busy dealing with no heat customers. My problem, which having read all the treads here seem to indicate my boiler has a leak
I have a GSA 175N-S, approx 9 years old and recently I noticed my water level went way down and the Low Water Cut off did it's job, to get the boiler back on I would have to push the button on the water Auto feeder to bring the water level back to the middle. This would happen maybe once a week.
Now its multiple times a day. I just clocked it tonight.

4:12 brought water up half way in tube. Boiler fired up
4:28 pressure went to 1
4:31 pressure went to 2
4:37 pressure went to 3
4:46 water level down and Low water shuts system down
Pressure goes from 3 down to 0 within 5 minutes

I have looked at all the radiators and found no leaks or hissing.
The radiators get hot and the return pipe is hot. All returns are above ground in my basement and are visible. There are no leaks around the boiler and I don't see any visible smoke from chimney, so I am stumped and trying to get professional to come look.

I bought this Hercules 32 oz. Boiler Liquid sealer but if I don't see any leaks not sure if I should put this in.

I took the jacket off the best I could looking for any steam release or something to indicate a leak, but found nothing.

Sorry to be so winded here but would appreciate any input.

Steamhead

@SLC , time to consult with a pro. Where are you located?

JUGHNE

Did you flood the boiler, that is to overfill it up to the top steam pipes. You can feel them getting cold from the water. Do not fill beyond that as you do not want to push water up into the system.

Let sit for maybe an hour and look for water on the floor and/or in the burner compartment. If dry everywhere there is good chance that the boiler is not leaking.

Drain back down to regular level and fire boiler to drive the oxygen out of the fresh water.

SLC

I have not tried that yet, will do tomorrow morning, Do I fill to the top where the pipes leave the boiler? Thanks for the advice.

SLC

I'm located in Neptune, NJ

EdTheHeaterMan

You have a possible good boiler. Are you experiencing a "no heat" condition or a "not enough heat" condition?

EBEBRATT-Ed

@SLC
Some of the best contractors on this site are in NJ. Check "find a contractor" on this site.

You pressure is too high lower it so the burner cuts off at 1.5 lbs and back on just above 0. Make sure your vents are working.

Stand back from the boiler and take some pictures of the boiler and the piping around it and post them

SLC

The boiler does fire up and it produces heat at the radiators. But the low water cuts off the boiler, then I need to refill every hour or so.
Attached Picture of boiler, I was told already in past post the guys that installed this should not be in the business as they used copper risers to the black steam pipe..Thats another issue I need to deal with. Thanks for the comments

SLC

Here is picture and diagram of the system

Jamie Hall

Well, your near boiler piping isn't helping you any -- but that doesn't account for the water loss. That water has to be going somewhere, and the best guess is as steam out the chimney, although it's surprising how much a relatively small leak (such as a vent stuck open) can lose.

neilc

are all the wet returns above the floor ?
and not leaking?
what about the one(s) that are under the floor ?

SLC

All the return pipe is above ground and visible in my basement..No leaks and the pipe feels hot then warm by boiler.
I am going to flood the boiler in the am to see if any leaks from the boiler, attached diagram of the system...one pipe system
I will look again at chimney for any smoke in the am.
Thanks

neilc

ok,
any humid areas upstairs? condensation on the windows?
leaking vents or valve stems?
usually I think the higher pressure is pushing water back into the returns,
but you say you're adding water, so it has to be going somewhere.

SLC

I'm going to sweep the house in the morning checking each radiator and valve..will keep you posted. Thanks for your comments

New England SteamWorks

99% you need a new boiler. Don’t use copper again. And be sure they install swing joints. 

pecmsg

It does suck that in the middle of a Blizzard you loose the boiler.
Keep refilling until you can get someone there.

Personally if you could afford him @EzzyT is the man!

EzzyT

@SLC you can reach me at 2018878856, depending on the weather I might be able to swing by on Friday morning and take a look at what you have.

SLC

Thank You, yes I will call you Friday and we'll see what the weather is like, I am in Neptune City,

SLC

Update..this morning I was able to get a better look at the chimney and it does appear to be white smoke (steam) coming out. I guess my best bet is to flood the boiler to verify leak. Has anyone used this Hercules boiler Liquid Sealer. Wondering if this would be a last ditch effort before I bite the bullet. Appreciate any suggestions. Thanks

STEAM DOCTOR

I would advise against. Can end up in the returns and safety controls  

SLC

Thanks, you advise against flooding or the sealer? or Both

Jamie Hall

Flooding is OK, but if you can see steam... why bother? But no on the sealer. It might work on a crack or pinhole below the water line, but not otherwise -- and will gum up some of the safeties. Don't do it.

JUGHNE

With your copper risers you would be able to feel the cold water filling the pipes. Do not go over the height of the copper.

In the meantime you could do a radiator survey for your connected EDR. Search for that here.
Simple, you need height from the floor to the top of the rad,
the number of columns when you look from the ends of the rads, and the number of sections looking from the front.
Charts will let you compute the EDR of each rad.

ethicalpaul

Why is your pressure going up to 3 I wonder? If you keep the pressure low, you'll lose less steam out the chimney. How is it even getting to 3psi if there's a leak in the boiler, I also wonder.

Grallert

If you can determine that there is a leak below the normal water line my feeling is that a sodium silicate boiler seal is a good option that could get you out of a bind. Very often it's used as a fix and forgotten. That's bad practice. But I've used it with good results on some neat catastrophic leaks. I've had a near 90% success rate I'd estimate. That copper cross over could very well be pushing the sections apart when the boiler is firing not much but some.

SLC

Thanks everyone, have a few calls into professional companies, hoping some one gets back to me soon..This is now getting way 0ver my head

Steamfighter49

Once had a large CI sectional boiler that couldn’t hear the building. Looked around for obvious leaks and found none. Fired the boiler and it ran normally until it approached operating pressure whereupon, bang! The pressure dropped. The heat and pressure opened up a crack in one section that stayed closed until then. It was above the waterline so the steam went up. But it could happen below the waterline and a small leak could be dried by the hot surface of the section. Far out, but possible. Some sections fail just a few years or sooner if a bad casting is the problem. 

Steamfighter49

Ooops, should say ‘heat’ the building. 

STEAM DOCTOR

SLC said:

Thanks, you advise against flooding or the sealer? or Both

Advise against the sealer. Flooding boiler is good, but if leaking, the water will end up on burners and you will need to dry them out before running boiler. 

SLC

Good point..thanks, will leave the rest for a professional, if I can get someone to call back...

JUGHNE

If you need a replacement, the contractor should do an EDR survey of the radiators.

As said, you can do your own survey and compare it to theirs.
There are many oversized boilers installed with bad outcomes.
If they want to just replace with same size, without the EDR study, you may not want them to do the install.

SLC

Good information. thank you

EBEBRATT-Ed

@SLC
Insist that any contractor use black pipe and that the read and follow the manufacturers piping diagram in the boiler manual

clammy

No such thing as a bad boiler usually just a bad install it’s quite common and happens all the time . From the looks of it that’s your main issue aside from a off brand boiler which really doesn’t count .you need some one to take the time do a edr on your radiators and match up the correct size boiler to your system . You need a proper header of steel pipe and proper piping w nipples and caps for future service and cleaning ,then a good cleaning of the boiler and returns . Replacement of radiator and main venting and usually a newer t stat if the one you have is ancient . I would recommend a demineralizing filter and possible a water meter to keep account of water use ,high water use means possible leaks which need to be addressed and repaired before you start using excess make up water . I would discourage the use of auto feeder there just a hider of leaks and issue till it’s to late plus the water at least in my area is terribly hard and not the best for any water based heating system . Your on the right track if ezzy taking a look he will put you on the right track and do the job correctly . But please don’t blame the boiler it s not it’s fault it is the installer who is to blame peace and good luck clammy

STEAM DOCTOR

@clammy. Points are all true. But in this particular scenario,  OP thinks that might have a boiler leak. Also, boiler is a Weil Mclain in disguise. 

clammy

I really can’t remember ever getting a packaged boiler that leaked out of the crate but that’s me. The real question is after the thermostat is satisfied and the system has some time does the water level return and if not have you look to see if any radiator valves or radiator and or main vents leaking ? If the water level does return after a period off ten I would assume that your issue are w your near boiler piping and your throwing either really wet steam or water into the mans and that’s where the water is going. I also find it hard to believe in 2020 that guys can’t install a steam boiler correctly most likely some one who does not know nor care . The other possible issue could be not enough water volume in the boiler and the possible need for a reserver tank ya run into those ever6 so often No worries you got a good steam man coming to look at it . I’m quite sure ezzy will straighten it out what ever it needs peace and good luck clammy

SLC

Thanks appreciate your input....