New commercial client with lots of Lochinvar stuff. Love it!

JohnNY

I'm enjoying these Lochinvar Crest boilers and Armor water heaters. All high efficiency and condensing. Somewhat neglected. New ignitors and flame sensors all around. Replaced the neutralizer media. Pumped up the expansion tanks, and we're ready to go. It was the kind of rewarding afternoon that reminds me I like this business.

JohnNY

Hmm.
Nothing.
Maybe the title of my post should've been "Drop Header!"

neilc

I almost wrote something about no isolation valves at any of the pretty equipment

Canucker

I sensed your enthusiasm in your post @JohnNY but I'm not a pro so I didn't know what to ask about the job. If you don't mind typing, I'd love to hear what you liked about it

The Steam Whisperer

I am glad you have had good experience with Lochinvar. Mine has been just the opposite. I have seen them make claims about thier equipment which are simply untrue and the factory rep in Northern Illinois has little knowledge. However, its been quite a while since I installed any of thier equipment.... Probably about 20 years. Since I do mostly steam now, I no longer have much opportunity to install hot water boilers. I install as plain Jane hot water boiler I can get most of the time, so they are almost always cast iron. I really liked the atmospheric Raypaks, very solid and no exaggerated claims to thier abilities. The Raypaks I worked on seem to have a similiar life expectanacy to the basic cast iron boilers. I had seen some that had not a single service or repair in over 20 years and still ran completely reliably.

JohnNY

The Steam Whisperer said:

I am glad you have had good experience with Lochinvar. Mine has been just the opposite. I have seen them make claims about thier equipment which are simply untrue and the factory rep in Northern Illinois has little knowledge.

I hear you. I guess it comes down to representation. Lochinvar has good support here in NY/NJ. To your point, another boiler manufacturer based in Germany but wildly popular here is officially off my list forever and I'm shocked at the lack of support they offer to this market.
With Lochinvar, I've learned their language and I've gotten pretty good at keeping them running. I also like their literature.
It's like the difference between Taco vs Grundfos's unreadable literature.
Things like that make a difference.

Zman

There onboard 0-10 delta T controls for the boiler circ is probably my favorite feature.
Tech support is awesome and they actually pick up the phone on the weekends.

JohnNY

Zman said:

There onboard 0-10 delta T controls for the boiler circ is probably my favorite feature.
Tech support is awesome and they actually pick up the phone on the weekends.

I really enjoy all the pump control options but I'd like to see a fan speed limit control like Weil-McLain includes. Still, Lochinvar for the win with the full-line ConXus remote interface app.

Solid_Fuel_Man

First time I've seen metal ducting used for combustion air on a mod/con. 

I've found the Lochinvar controller to be pretty intuitive as well. But we dont see many of them in my area, mostly W-M here. 

Turbo Dave

Those moments when you feel the happy hum of the equipment in return for your efforts are priceless to me too. Nice to hear.

tim smith

John, as you know I'm a lochinvar fan. On the armour's, did you find much build up inside combustion chamber? I have found them pretty bad after a year. I wish they could get the firetube for potable hot water, they are rockstars. Nice install, working on small apt bldg install today.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

I really enjoy all the pump control options but I'd like to see a fan speed limit control like Weil-McLain includes.

When would you want to limit fan speed?

JohnNY

tim smith said:

John, as you know I'm a lochinvar fan. On the armour's, did you find much build up inside combustion chamber? I have found them pretty bad after a year. I wish they could get the firetube for potable hot water, they are rockstars. Nice install, working on small apt bldg install today.

Hey. Not my install. I'm just servicing. I can't say I've noticed much buildup in the heat exchangers but on these 8-year-old units, I've had to change ignitors twice this year.

@Alan (California Radiant) Forbes when short cycling becomes an issue or any other reason the boiler seems to be working too aggressively to meet a setpoint. I'd rather not hit my auto-reset high limit in some cases. For example I've got a client who watches his boiler like a hawk and when the screen shows a soft lockout he gets nervous. Explaining it was a normal part of the DHW cycle didn't do it for him and so now I make hot water at a slower, more-controlled burn rate and I stopped getting the panicky emails.

tim smith

JohnNY , appx 4 years ago you were looking to buy new combustion anlayzer with bluetooth reporting. What did you end up with and have you replaced it again since. Which one did you buy and how has maintenance been on it. We have a bone yard of appx 7 testos, We have a few UEI C155. Still not sure which I believe should be the successor? Input appreciated.
Tim

motoguy128

I’m jealous. If I had a commercial customer like that, I could spend hours checking flows, tweaking ODR and watching condensate pour out the drain.

Instead I get a nursing home and at least salvage a 16yo NTI piped wrong with cooked medium-well exhaust because its been running with 180F return water on PVC pipe for 16 years, then flush a EGH95 and add some 8way treatment so it stops kettling. Noise was gone when I returned 3 weeks later.

dhw_probs

@motoguy126 "running with 180F return water on PVC pipe for 16 years,"

I'm not in HVAC/Plumbing but I work at a large college. When I first started, a student housing building built 20 years earlier suddenly started having regular floods, usually mid winter. Fixed the first 2 times. After the 3rd, they realized something much more systemic was going on. Made it through the winter, shutdown the building in the Summer to tear it apart. What they found was standard PVC used for heating, so when winter hit & heating water was running > 160 F daily the fittings were failing, floods etc.

Here's the thing: The buildings/architectural folks dug back into the original plans & contract bid, and it WAS spec'ed out for copper. But the contractor use PVC instead in significant parts of the building (probably just enough copper to show off on inspections). It had been 20 years ago, and legal council couldn't find the construction company or any of the named managers etc. anywhere. Sometimes that's the price you pay when you go with the lowest bidder.

Solid_Fuel_Man

Oversight on construction is a must. 

Only time I've seen PVC used for heat distribution (other than homeowner specials) was Corzan SCH80 spec'd for a low temp system in a seawater laboratory. Copper/iron didnt hold up in the saltwater lab. 

But I think @motoguy128 is speaking of PVC used as exhaust vent on his NTI boiler. 

JohnNY

Solid_Fuel_Man said:

But I think @motoguy128 is speaking of PVC used as exhaust vent on his NTI boiler. 

Yes. PVC on high efficiency boiler exhausts was legal for a few years. Now we've got to use AL294C stainless steel or polypropylene. In some cases, we can use CPVC.

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

IBC allows PVC for venting.

The vent temperature is limited with the use of a flue
temperature sensor and software to ensure the maximum temperature of the PVC venting material is not exceeded.

Tinman

The Steam Whisperer said:

I am glad you have had good experience with Lochinvar. Mine has been just the opposite. I have seen them make claims about thier equipment which are simply untrue and the factory rep in Northern Illinois has little knowledge. However, its been quite a while since I installed any of thier equipment.... Probably about 20 years. Since I do mostly steam now, I no longer have much opportunity to install hot water boilers. I install as plain Jane hot water boiler I can get most of the time, so they are almost always cast iron. I really liked the atmospheric Raypaks, very solid and no exaggerated claims to thier abilities. The Raypaks I worked on seem to have a similiar life expectanacy to the basic cast iron boilers. I had seen some that had not a single service or repair in over 20 years and still ran completely reliably.

Lochinvar has a strong, reliable, and knowledgeable presence in Northern Illinois. I don’t how you could ask for more? When I commit to a product, I make it a point to know as much as possible before moving forward with it. 

A lot can change in twenty years. In the hydronic industry, a lot can change in two years. 

Mike_Sheppard

I’ve replaced a ton of those Armor heat exchangers.

Overall good boilers/heaters though. Tuning the Crests are interesting.