I have to reset my pressuretrol very frequently

fotoburger

I cannot get the boiler (steam system, Weil-McLain EG/PEG) to stay on long enough to reach the thermostat set point, 2-4 degrees away. I have to reset the pressuretrol.

This started last year at the tail end of the heating season. I put it off and now it is starting to get a little chilly.

Jamie Hall

Say what? I it's an automatic reset pressuretrol -- which it should be if it is the primary pressure control -- there are several possibilities. The first of which is a clogged pigtail allowing pressure in, but not back out. The second of which is that it's misadjusted -- the cutin pressure should never be less than half a pound on the usual pressuretrol, and never less than 2 ounces on a vapourstat. Otherwise they can hang up. And, of course, the third is that the pressuretrol is not working properly and needs to be replaced...

fotoburger

There are 2 pressuretrols, one small auto one, and a second large manual one. I am the homeowner and don't know much about this sort of stuff. I have been in the house for 11 years and it worked fine until last year.

fotoburger

JUGHNE

Do you mean you have to reset the red button on the control with the clear front?
That is the high limit safety.
What shows on the pressure gauge when the boiler operates before you have to reset?
If you go up to 10 PSI, you have some serious problems.

When was the pigtail loops under the controls last cleaned?

EdTheHeaterMan

@fotoburger... when was the last time the boiler was "Completely Serviced" by a professional, not just a burner tune-up either. I'm talking about tearing down the Low Water Cut-Off (LWCO) cleaned the pigtails on the gauges and pressure controls, skim the boiler surface and check/replace the air vents?

On commercial boilers, we need to do this at least every other year for a state inspector. On a residential boiler like yours, maybe every 5 years or so might be appropriate. I think it is time to have that done. It is a good thing you have that extra "Manual Reset Control". Many residential systems do not have them and some never know there is a problem until it is too late. Too late is when the boiler needs to be replaced or the repairs are in the 4 digit area.

You need a good Steam Boiler Professional. Look at the Find A Contractor at the top of the Webpage

fotoburger

I just looked and reset it. It's at 4.75 psi. This time it did not fire the boiler though it's below the thermostat set point, but it is live, as the light is on - see attached pic.

fotoburger

I don't know what the pigtail is, so the answer is I have never cleaned it.

fotoburger

I can use the plumbers that installed it 20 or so years ago... If that is what I need then I will engage them. Thank you.

Jamie Hall

@fotoburger -- you have a real problem. Either the pigtail to the automatic pressuretrol is clogged, or it's not working. Either way, it needs to be corrected -- yesterday.

And from the sound of it, the whole boiler and burner need to be carefully gone over by someone who really knows what they are doing, and make sure that all the safeties are working (if the pressuretrol isn't, I'd lay odds that the low water cutoff isn't either), the boiler is thoroughly cleaned inside (fire side) and the burner properly cleaned and adjusted.

If the person who did it 20 years ago is available, and seems like he or she knows what they are doing, that would work. Otherwise, check "find a contractor" above or let us know where you are and we may know someone.

fotoburger

fotoburger

These are some of the rest of the components.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@fotoburger
You need to get it serviced. It's just like a car. If you don't maintain it it will fail on you when you need it the most....like now during the heating season.

Not to be harsh but you knew about this last year and had all summer to get it serviced......most are busy now and it's just not a no heat call you have a safety issue

JUGHNE

Where are you located?
As stated above you can check Find a Contractor.
You need someone well versed in steam boilers, that is often beyond a plumber's experience.

fotoburger

Queens, NYC. But the guys who installed it are available, honest, and competent. Not easy to find in NYC.

Jamie Hall

Well, if they don't work out there are a number of absolutely first class folks whom we know who work in your area.

But I warn you -- this isn't going to be 15 minute wave a wand and all is well call -- it's going to be at least half a day or a full day to get it done. Or more, if more problems are found.

fotoburger

What could take so long? at $200/hr maybe I should get a new boiler?

JUGHNE

It will get dirty again.
You have been there 11 years without any repairs or maintenance?
You should have had 3-4 preventive maintenance visits in that time. So you will get a bargain with a one day job.
If you had a car would you drive 11 years with any service jobs?

Would you post pictures of your boiler showing the piping floor to ceiling from several angles? Back up to show the big picture.
We could then give more helpful (free) advice on what to expect to be done.

fotoburger

not much room to back up, and lotsa stuff on the floor in front...

fotoburger

fotoburger

Hard to back up. Small basement, lotsa crap on the floor.

Jamie Hall

fotoburger said:

What could take so long? at $200/hr maybe I should get a new boiler?

A decade plus of neglected maintenance? With at least one known safety problem? I wouldn't complain.

Bluntly, had you done what was needed every year, it might have been two hours a year. Now?

And for what it's worth, there's at least one piping error that I see... it won't keep it from operating, but will keep it from operating as quietly and efficiently as it should.

fotoburger

Thank you for your insight. I will engage them to do what is needed. Would you mind telling me what you think is incorrect?

Jamie Hall

Can't see all the piping -- and this one comes under the heading of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" -- or, in this case, if it's working, leave it be.

The riser from the boiler comes up OK, but then turns horizontal with a reducing el to the horizontal pipe -- the header. That header should be set higher, and -- more to the point -- should be a size larger than the riser from the boiler, rather than smaller.

But as I say, if it's working and is reasonably quiet -- no banging or hammering, or not much, leave it be.

neilc

are you resetting the Ptrol, up high,
or the Low Water Cut Off, down low ?

in either case,
both pigtails need to be checked, cleaned, and or replaced,
the LWCO probe cleaned, or replaced as its been 10 plus years,
and all these safeties checked for proper operation,
the sightglass ports need to be checked, cleaned,
the glass cleaned, and or replaced,
the safety valve checked and or replaced,

maybe not an issue, but,
the pipe out the top of the boiler shouldn't be down sized as it goes horizontal, not until it turns back down at the far side into the equalizer.
any hammering?
did we discuss venting? Yet?

fotoburger

Thanx for your comments. No there has been no hammering, the system is quiet inside the house, and when I stand by the boiler, all I hear is the burner burning gas.
By venting, are you referring to the radiator vent valves?

Jamie Hall

Yes, @neilc was talking about radiator -- and main -- vents.

However, let me emphasize: no, the boiler piping isn't quite what we like to see. We have seen much worse. If it working and heating your house reasonably well, there is no point in worrying about it. Steam heat is amazingly forgiving!

But do get that boiler and its controls looked after!

fotoburger

As soon as I can clear a path to it, I will
Oddly, this season one of the vent valves split down it side. I just replaced it with one from a dormant radiator. Its a USAV-881. HD has them for $13 and I will buy a few.

ethicalpaul

No don’t buy any vent from HD, they are truly trash.

get them from supplyhouse.com, a fine establishment and advertising supporter of this site

but also don’t buy any vents until your pressure situation is resolved. If you’re really getting up to 10psi that is about 8psi higher than your system should ever get, and it can damage the vents. Are any of them loudly hissing air or steam?

fotoburger

I have never seen the gauge past 5 psi. They do not hiss loudly. However one of them was burst. I think because it's cheap china junk. It is an inline vent (screwed in from the top of the radiator, so I have had a hard time finding it). I will look at supplyhouse and see if they have it.

fotoburger

I just looked. I am having the same problem as elsewhere. I can't find steam valves. And when I do (elsewhere) I don't find the inline variety.

Jamie Hall

Can you send us a photo of the problem vent? We may be able to figure out what to do with it.

fotoburger

fotoburger

There is another place for a normal right angle vent at the end, but it has a plug. I don't know what size plug, but I suspect it's large, because I have another similar radiator with this connection in use, but with a reducing bushing. I don't know what size the reduser is, but the valve it takes is a regular 1/8" valve.

fotoburger

I said 1/8" though it looks more like 1/4" to me.

fotoburger

I found it under air valves.

ethicalpaul

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Steam-Vents-27901000

a 1/8 NPT will look 1/4" from the outside diameter. The size refers to the inside diameter for NPT

PS: china only makes junk when US companies hire them to do so

fotoburger

I have scheduled the plumbers to come tomorrow.

Jamie Hall

That type of vent which you picture is referred to as a straight stem. They are commonly available in a variety of makes and sizes. Try Supplyhouse.com; steam vents.

That said, it really shouldn't be on top of the radiator, if this is a conventional cast iron radiator. It really should be about a third to half way down on the end opposite the steam inlet.

fotoburger

There is a place where you say, but it's occupied by a plug. I have the feeling that the previous owner just drilled a hole in the top, possibly because he didn't want to disturb the baseboard to replace the valve by rotating it, as the radiators are narrow. I am showing 2 radiators, 1 with the vent in the correct place, the other on top.

Jamie Hall

Creative anyway... but on baseboards like that, the top location won't work much worse than the end...