Gas Steam Boiler Estimates/Installs in New Jersey

BrendanLead

I purchased a home several months ago in North New Jersey, just west of Jersey City. I have received 3 estimates $ (Weil-Mclain 150BTU), $ (Peerless 120BTU), $ (UTICA 150BTU) to replace my existing Weil-Mclain gas steam boiler. While the lowest $ quote is the most attractive, I worry because it seems this plumber uses copper pipes instead of black steel. What are your thoughts?

HVACNUT

Visit the website rules, then you can edit your post.
No copper for near boiler piping. Ever. The contractor must adhere to the I&O manual. If not, then bye-bye. 

JohnNY

The company using copper is one that does not specialize in steam, which is an unforgiving system. That should be your least attractive proposal.

Jamie Hall

There are a number of very good steam people in your area. Check "Find a Contractor", above.

But before you do, take the prices out of your question.

As @JohnNY says, the party proposing copper pipe doesn't know what he or she is doing and should not be considered.

EzzyT

@BrendanLead We work all over NJ and service your area. 

Reach out to me and maybe we can set up appointment for us to present you a proposal to replace your boiler.

Erin Holohan Haskell

Welcome, @BrendanLead. I've edited your post to remove pricing.

As Dan Holohan says here in his guide for finding a steam-heating contractor, "Competent steam contractors generally charge more for a boiler replacement than others, but these guys deliver those wonderful results - increased comfort and fuel savings. They will never be the low-bidder, but they will do what they say they’ll do, and I think they’re well worth their price."

Also here's what goes into these jobs and why you should be wary of the low bidder. That copper piping is a huge red flag.

I recommend you get another estimate from one of the steam pros here.

ethicalpaul

Curious-- Did any of your three contractors add up the "EDR" of your radiators before they determined the size (BTU) of their proposed boilers?

You want to make damn sure they do (and any of the contractors who are on this site will) otherwise they are just guessing at the size you need and likely costing you $$

Also curious...is your current boiler leaking or has it failed in some way?

BrendanLead

@ethicalpaul Several companies did measure the radiators and calculate the EDR. I had a few local plumbers provide estimates that have been in the business for many years and come highly recommended. These local guys didn't calculate EDR. Service Professionals out of Union, NJ seems to be a rather large company and measured the radiators but I didn't like that they offered one estimate and when I informed them of the lower estimates, they came down in price. After happening upon this forum, I will be sure to check on here for local steam guys.

BrendanLead

@ethicalpaul The side of the boiler is all corroded and looks to be in terrible shape. I'm worried if I have to replace the boiler during the winter, the job will cost substantially more.

STEVEusaPA

Are you sure it's not just a leaking pipe? I'd call @EzzyT.
Just check the site for pictures of some of his installs.

ethicalpaul

I'm happily surprised that some of the contractors measured your radiators.

I would be even happier if one of them had suggested that your boiler could be inspected to see if it was leaking because as @STEVEusaPA says above, it looks like you might just have a leaking nipple (the wet return/hartford loop pipes in that area are a common failure point, but don't necessarily indicate that the boiler is near failure).

It depends how you approached the contractors. If you call them and say "I need a quote on a boiler replacement", they are probably happy to give you one. If you say "I'm concerned about these leaks", at least to the folks who are usually on this forum, you are far more likely to get an inspection that might save or defer the spending of thousands of bucks.

EdTheHeaterMan

There are 2 schools of thought when you ask a pro to come to your home for heating work. #1 Is that you ask for the inspection of the problem. "Can you fix this leak?" or Is this something I should be concerned with?" This requires someone with tools and experience to make the inspection, suggest the repair, and price up the possible scenarios. You can either accept the repair or reject the repair at that point. This person is usually "on the Clock" and he or his boss will expect payment for the service provided. Even if you don't approve the suggested work, the tech still gets paid and therefore you will be charged for the diagnosis and time it takes to price up a solution. If you need new equipment, that technician will also suggest that option. (in my company I would offer you the option of applying the price of the service call to any new equipment... but not everyone does that)

#2 is that you ask for a price for new equipment and a sales representative visits your home. His job is to estimate the cost involved in installing new replacement equipment. Usually, he has no tools (or very few tools) and may not be qualified to make technical repairs. His job is to provide a FREE Estimate. He may even be on commission. If he does not make a sale, there is no commission paid by the boss. That is how the boss can afford to provide FREE estimates.

Both #1 and #2 are professionals. Both provide different services for you as a customer. Sometime the FREE estimate will cost you more than if you ask for help and pay for a service call. In your situation, the new boiler will most likely not reduce the cost of operation. Repairing the old boiler may be more cost-effective.

@BrendanLead , I hope this info helps.

BrendanLead

@EdTheHeaterMan @ethicalpaul @STEVEusaPA - @EzzyT is coming by tomorrow to look at the boiler. I will discuss these issues with him when I see him. Thank you all for your help and suggestions. I will report back!

STEAM DOCTOR

@BrendanLead. Lucky you. Smart move. 

BrendanLead

Hope everyone is having a wonderful weekend. It looks like I have about 266 SQ FT of steam required based on the radiator measurements (10 radiators). I am receiving conflicting reports on the size of the boiler required -100,000 BTU or 125,000 BTU system. Would any of you guys happen to have any thoughts? The guy specifying the 125,000 BTU system is saying 100,000 BTUs is way undersized so I just want to make sure I come to the right conclusion. Thank you!

EBEBRATT-Ed

I answered in your other thread. There are some of the best contractors available in NJ you need @EzzyT

BrendanLead

I saw that. Thank you for the response. @EzzyT came by and sized it to 100,000 BTU. He’s incredibly knowledgeable and passionate about mechanical systems and Buildings as a whole. I just wish I could afford him! After just purchasing this house, and needing to renovate other areas as well, he’s unfortunately  outside of our budget.

Canucker

@BrendanLead I would look hard at whether those other renovations need to be done right now. If they're structural or closing up the building envelope, then yes, get them done. If they're for visual reasons then having a leaking steam boiler replaced by @EzzyT would be the best use of your limited funds. That leak isn't going away and you don't want to have to do this again in 10 years or less. @EzzyT will help make that a reality. Just my unsolicited advice, take it for what it's worth to you

Dave0176

FYI guys I also gave a quote. And suggested the EG35. Brendans concern was the other company that suggested the 125,000 Btu boiler said I didn’t know how to size a steam boiler. So I suggested to Brendan to start this thread to see what you guys have to say.

BrendanLead

@Dave0176 thanks for chiming in. I didn’t want to disclose that without confirming with you first. 

EzzyT

@BrendanLead yeah whoever told you that you need 125,000 or 150,000 btus clearly has no idea on how to size a steam boiler. 

JohnNY

This is why *free estimates* don't work anymore.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@BrendanLead

You have had two of the best look at the job. You get what you pay for. Either @Dave0176 or @EzzyT will do the right job.

If you hire someone else you may get the right job and you may be pouring money down the drain. This is one instance you want to get this right

266 square ft of steam =240 btus/sq foot so 266 x 240=63, 840 BTUs at the radiators. 63840 x 1.20 (boiler efficiency) x 1.33 piping and pick up load=101888 btu input.

So 100,000 is close enough and the manufacturers ratings will be more accurate than my of the top of the head calculations