Water pressure

SuperTech

@ChrisJ I like the addition of the webstone purge station valve above the meter. That's definitely something that I would have done. Actually I did put one on my main by the whole house water filter.

hot_rod

A leaded brass valve made in China?!
,Unless it is labeled or stamped low lead or with the NSF logo, it probable is not low lead. Or maybe some models are NSF?

ChrisJ

> @hot_rod said:
> A leaded brass valve made in China?!
> ,Unless it is labeled or stamped low lead or with the NSF logo, it probable is not low lead. Or maybe some models are NSF?

I'm not sure what you're talking about?
Everything I used is low lead or so called no lead and rated for potable water currently.

ChrisJ

So apparently the pressure does spike often. I've seen 110 psi and 100 psi now in less than 12 hours.

I wish the prv didn't drop as much as it does with flow, but I guess it's better with than without.

ChrisJ

hot_rod said:

A leaded brass valve made in China?!
,Unless it is labeled or stamped low lead or with the NSF logo, it probable is not low lead. Or maybe some models are NSF?

Did you mean the Webstone Ball drain?

They have potable versions now.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-50613W-3-4-SWT-Webstone-PRO-PAL-Ball-Valve-w-Drain-Lead-Free

hot_rod

> @ChrisJ said:
> (Quote)
> Did you mean the Webstone Ball drain?
>
> They have potable versions now.
> https://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-50613W-3-4-SWT-Webstone-PRO-PAL-Ball-Valve-w-Drain-Lead-Free

Yes, I was looking out for your health🤠. I didn’t see any of the required listings mentioned on that valve?
Perhaps the valve or box has one of the certifications indicated? There are listing options, but more and more the NSF is being requested.

https://www.nsf.org/newsroom_pdf/Lead_free_certification_marks.pdf

ChrisJ

> @hot_rod said:
> > @ChrisJ said:
> > (Quote)
> > Did you mean the Webstone Ball drain?
> >
> > They have potable versions now.
> > https://www.supplyhouse.com/Webstone-50613W-3-4-SWT-Webstone-PRO-PAL-Ball-Valve-w-Drain-Lead-Free
>
> Yes, I was looking out for your health🤠. I didn’t see any of the required listings mentioned on that valve?
> Perhaps the valve or box has one of the certifications indicated? There are listing options, but more and more the NSF is being requested.
>
> https://www.nsf.org/newsroom_pdf/Lead_free_certification_marks.pdf
>
>



Here you go.

JUGHNE

So does anyone know how sensitive lead testing would be.
If there was a single non lead free brass fitting in an entire house could a water sample detect this ??
Or did this flag come up from the 50 year old corporation stop
on the main or the just as old curb stop and fittings?

There are thousand of miles of copper with old school fittings and even 50/50 solder on a million fittings.
I could see something showing up there.....but how dangerous is it?

I understand the concern with actual lead water pipes and the disaster that came with it.

Naturally occurring arsenic is now being tested for, it was always there but because of technology advancements that bar has been raised.

Where does it stop?

Will some bonehead inspector insist on low lead valves for steam and hydronic systems. Standard non low lead valves are still available at supply house.com, warnings all over the place. You have to agree to not use them on potable water systems.

ChrisJ

> @JUGHNE said:
> So does anyone know how sensitive lead testing would be.
> If there was a single non lead free brass fitting in an entire house could a water sample detect this ??
> Or did this flag come up from the 50 year old corporation stop
> on the main or the just as old curb stop and fittings?
>
> There are thousand of miles of copper with old school fittings and even 50/50 solder on a million fittings.
> I could see something showing up there.....but how dangerous is it?
>
> I understand the concern with actual lead water pipes and the disaster that came with it.
>
> Naturally occurring arsenic is now being tested for, it was always there but because of technology advancements that bar has been raised.
>
> Where does it stop?
>
> Will some bonehead inspector insist on low lead valves for steam and hydronic systems. Standard non low lead valves are still available at supply house.com, warnings all over the place. You have to agree to not use them on potable water systems.

My opinion is and has been I'd like as little as possible but some leaded joints or normal brass doesn't bother me. My stuff gets used constantly.

Now a lead service line would irritate me but even those are allowed to remain.

My galv line was ready to get ugly from the looks of it.

hot_rod

> @JUGHNE said:
> So does anyone know how sensitive lead testing would be.
> If there was a single non lead free brass fitting in an entire house could a water sample detect this ??
> Or did this flag come up from the 50 year old corporation stop
> on the main or the just as old curb stop and fittings?
>
> There are thousand of miles of copper with old school fittings and even 50/50 solder on a million fittings.
> I could see something showing up there.....but how dangerous is it?
>
> I understand the concern with actual lead water pipes and the disaster that came with it.
>
> Naturally occurring arsenic is now being tested for, it was always there but because of technology advancements that bar has been raised.
>
> Where does it stop?
>
> Will some bonehead inspector insist on low lead valves for steam and hydronic systems. Standard non low lead valves are still available at supply house.com, warnings all over the place. You have to agree to not use them on potable water systems.

I suppose at some point all brass will go low lead, too many logistics keep inventory separate.

As for implications? Asbestos mining and use? Mercury in our teeth? Legionella? COVIDS?

The public, and their attorneys want you to be safe and live a long healthful life🤔

I thing water piping gets a coating to protect any leaching. Unless a disinfectant chemical is added to kill bacteria, that happens to strip away that protective coating.

Jamie Hall

"The public, and their attorneys want you to be safe and live a long healthful life🤔" Right on, @hot_rod .

I saw this in action when I was in the environmental assessment and haz-mat remediation business -- and I think I've muttered about it here, too. The analytical techniques for determining what is in water -- or air, or dirt, or whatever -- are steadily increasing in sensitivity. In the couple of decades I was in the racket, they went from parts per million using wet chemistry (none too accurately, I might add) to parts per quadrillion using various mass spectrometer techniques. Trouble is, the science driving the "safe" levels -- the risk assessment process -- hasn't changed at all. To say it is crude is to be generous. The result is that for many compounds the levels were set -- decades ago -- at a number corresponding to the detection limit at the time, but now one can do a thousand or a million times better -- and what was once deemed safe is now OMG we'll all die. Trouble is, we do all die, sooner or later, or get this illness or that, and somewhere out there there will be an enterprising attorney and a naive client who will happily say that look! We can detect some weird compound or other in your water supply! And that's why you are ill! And the purveyor of the water or the maker of the compound has lots of money! Let's sue!

Causality is never brought up. No proof is required that ingesting this or that made you sick -- and really can't be, at the levels in question. But there's lots and lots of money to be made.

I could go on and on. I won't.

ChrisJ

Jamie Hall said:

"The public, and their attorneys want you to be safe and live a long healthful life🤔" Right on, @hot_rod .

I saw this in action when I was in the environmental assessment and haz-mat remediation business -- and I think I've muttered about it here, too. The analytical techniques for determining what is in water -- or air, or dirt, or whatever -- are steadily increasing in sensitivity. In the couple of decades I was in the racket, they went from parts per million using wet chemistry (none too accurately, I might add) to parts per quadrillion using various mass spectrometer techniques. Trouble is, the science driving the "safe" levels -- the risk assessment process -- hasn't changed at all. To say it is crude is to be generous. The result is that for many compounds the levels were set -- decades ago -- at a number corresponding to the detection limit at the time, but now one can do a thousand or a million times better -- and what was once deemed safe is now OMG we'll all die. Trouble is, we do all die, sooner or later, or get this illness or that, and somewhere out there there will be an enterprising attorney and a naive client who will happily say that look! We can detect some weird compound or other in your water supply! And that's why you are ill! And the purveyor of the water or the maker of the compound has lots of money! Let's sue!

Causality is never brought up. No proof is required that ingesting this or that made you sick -- and really can't be, at the levels in question. But there's lots and lots of money to be made.

I could go on and on. I won't.

I've heard rumor of a certain store pushing sales on a water test that seems to always come back positive for dangerous things and then they try to sell you an expensive filter setup. They tried to get me to sign up for a test. I had considered doing it and sending them a sample of distilled water just for fun but I decided I didn't feel like dealing with it.

ratio

The trouble with tests (& experts for that matter) is that if you question the results, you're obviously a flat-earth anti-vaccer who votes the wrong way.

We live in a time when thinking isn't very popular.

ChrisJ

ratio said:

The trouble with tests (& experts for that matter) is that if you question the results, you're obviously a flat-earth anti-vaccer who votes the wrong way.

We live in a time when thinking isn't very popular.

Did you have to bring up flat earthers and antivaxxers on my thread.

Rock bottom.....................

ratio

I'm sorry, I'll do better in the future.

In an attempt to add Useful Content, how loose is the peak indicating needle? On my gauge, it's lose enough that an abrupt spike could fling it higher than what the actual pressure reached.

ChrisJ

ratio said:

I'm sorry, I'll do better in the future.

In an attempt to add Useful Content, how loose is the peak indicating needle? On my gauge, it's lose enough that an abrupt spike could fling it higher than what the actual pressure reached.

I don't know.
I don't have a way to measure it's friction.

ratio

If I hold mine flat & twist it along the movement axis I can easily move the indicating needle 40 PSIG or more. It does not instill a feeling of accuracy; however, I, too, have no ready way to measure it's friction.

ChrisJ

ratio said:

If I hold mine flat & twist it along the movement axis I can easily move the indicating needle 40 PSIG or more. It does not instill a feeling of accuracy; however, I, too, have no ready way to measure it's friction.

It doesn't need to be laboratory grade accuracy.
A simple "This could blow out a questionable connection" indication is good enough to me.

The house next door flooded a few years ago because a pipe broke. Don't know what that meant, but combine that with the Fluidmaster fill valve I had that split down the tube and it makes you go "hmmm".

I suppose it could be a coincidence, but the cheesy pressure gauge makes me think the water pressure helped things along.

Solid_Fuel_Man

The question does the test gauge have lead in it?

ChrisJ

Solid_Fuel_Man said:

The question does the test gauge have lead in it?

JUGHNE

My business insurance covers several trades.
Used to be based on $$ income per trade.
That has been simplified now, no annual audit to determine premium cost.

You read about electrical causes of fires everyday.
One would assume electrical premium should be high.

The plumbing is actually the most expensive part.
There apparently is more dollar cost for water damage than electrical burn down.
Severe water damage in a structure does not make any headlines except to the insurance underwriters.

But then there is gas piping. Actually few problems there but when there are it will make booming headlines.

My insurance policy states NO LPG,,NO propane and no fire alarm work. (I may have done these things previously out of ignorance.... )

So does this mean that plumbers, HVAC and pipe fitters should charge more than electricans??