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Noisy system

SteamCrazy
SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
in Strictly Steam
Hello, I was wondering if anyone could help me? Im hearing what seems like gargling water noise from my steam radiators while the vents are releasing the air. We just had new gas boiler and near boiler piping installed. Any info would be appreciated. Please and Thank you Sincerely Ed

Comments

  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,230
    Take pictures of the near boiler piping and post them.
  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    Hi after reading and watching Dan videos I my riser seems to be to short. Right?
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    Are the radiators pitched back so that water can run back down the supply side of the radiator? Maybe a quarter inch pitch.
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,230
    SteamCrazy said:

    Hi after reading and watching Dan videos I my riser seems to be to short. Right?

    Why only 1 riser? There are 2 takeoffs correct!
  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    Not sure. I'll check them.
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,493
    pecmsg said:

    SteamCrazy said:

    Hi after reading and watching Dan videos I my riser seems to be to short. Right?

    Why only 1 riser? There are 2 takeoffs correct!
    Sure looks like 2 to me... and worse, the header is the same size as the riser. At least things are in the right order...
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    It seems I will have to start there Fred. I found a few of the radiators level with pitch. I will correct them and give results. Thanks everyone for help
  • ethicalpaul
    ethicalpaul Member Posts: 6,379
    edited March 2020
    He means his steam supply riser is too short (header too low) I think? And yeah it looks like it could be. Do you have the model number of the boiler, @SteamCrazy ?

    For how big the boiler is, it looks like not enough steam supply pipe capacity, but that's a total guess.

    But to address the actual question asked, I like @Fred 's suggestion to check the radiator pitch first.

    NJ Steam Homeowner.
    Free NJ and remote steam advice: https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/new-jersey-steam-help/
    See my sight glass boiler videos: https://bit.ly/3sZW1el

  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    Yes it does have two take off. I guess installer did the bare minimum. I contacted job do to time and man power needed for removal and install of boiler. But im capable of doing the piping. I plan to due pipe upgrade. Along with double drop header. I'll keep you posted. Thanks
  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    Sorry correction to previous post radiators are level with no pitch
  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    I checked the install manual and per manual. 2nd riser is optional and I measured the current riser height is done per manufacturer suggestion of 24" from water line. After becoming a steam junkie and watching Dan's videos I know he prefers that measurement to be of the top of boiler and greater if possible.
  • Fred
    Fred Member Posts: 8,542
    I don't know what you guys are looking at but like @pecmsg , I only see one riser out of the boiler. The one riser he has doesn't look too short. It is easily 24 inches above the boiler water line, I think. @ethicalpaul Burnhams only have 2" tappings so both tappings probably should have been used and a larger header would have been nice. I think once he pitches those radiators, he'll probably be okay.
  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    I will say i believe the contracted company did a good job. You might not believe it but I had four other estimates drawn up and none of the others mention doing new near boiler piping. Not to mention what I had was completely wrong.
  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    I will take to the next level Worthy of heatinghelp.com posting lol
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,230
    SteamCrazy said:

    I checked the install manual and per manual. 2nd riser is optional and I measured the current riser height is done per manufacturer suggestion of 24" from water line. After becoming a steam junkie and watching Dan's videos I know he prefers that measurement to be of the top of boiler and greater if possible.

    and there's an issue so is it optional?

  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    Well thanks again guys Im new to this site but plan to follow with progress.
  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    Yes it is an option.
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 10,702
    What about oil form the new piping? Is the water line surging?
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 5,230
    SteamCrazy said:

    Yes it is an option.

    NO

    its not.

    Replace it with 2 risers and a drop header and listen to Dry Steam!
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,251
    I do like the jack chain pipe hanger on the old boiler copper pipe. Looks like they did a good job. 2 risers would be nice. @SteamCrazy is the header the correct size?
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,248
    Are both of your existing mains parallel flow.....could the lower one be counter flow??
  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    Im not sure I have been trying to figure that out about the main flow. It seems to that things have been mess with over the years house was built in 1897. Please note at beginning of post it shows what system look like now. The old copper set up was replaced.
  • SteamCrazy
    SteamCrazy Member Posts: 100
    It seems to that I have two counter flow mains with a dry return. But confused
  • Neild5
    Neild5 Member Posts: 171
    The single main vent that I see looks small for the amount of main pipe.
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 17,312
    According to the I&O manual, the use of just one 2" riser and a 2" header are permitted on the IN3-IN6 models:

    https://file.ac/cdqSN9-O7Es/Independence I&O Manual.pdf

    IN7 and larger models need two 2" risers and a 3" header.

    If that were my job, I would at least use a 2-1/2" header.
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 16,251
    @SteamCrazy

    That 1 1/2 or 1 1/4 riser coming off the main with the tee looking straight is wrong, that could be an issue. It needs to come off the main at a 45 degree angle
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 24,493
    That long line across the basement is -- I hope -- parallel flow, with a return line coming back. What isn't there and is badly needed is a main vent near that curious arrangement of plumbing seen in photo https://us.v-cdn.net/5021738/uploads/editor/6o/0nvuj82k1zsq.jpg and various other places.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
  • Hap_Hazzard
    Hap_Hazzard Member Posts: 2,846
    I hope that chain isn't supposed to be holding up the pipe.
    Just another DIYer | King of Prussia, PA
    1983(?) Peerless G-561-W-S | 3" drop header, CG400-1090, VXT-24
  • dopey27177
    dopey27177 Member Posts: 887
    All the commentary is correct. You did not mention if the system that preceded the new installation caused problems or funny noise.

    Dan and I go way back and one of his sayings based on many visits to troubled steam heating installations as a manufacturers rep was (sometimes when you do something stupid you get rewarded).

    The original piping shown with all that copper and bull t connections is the something stupid, if you had no problems before that was the installers reward.

    Just some commentary about the installation,

    1. the header should have been increased one size
    2. The quick vents should have been installed in more favorable locations
    3. Above all all the near boiler piping should have been insulated with 1" thick fiber glass insulation
    4. The steam mains in the basement should also be insulated
    5. see the attachment

    JAKE
    Steam: The Perfect Fluid for Heating and Some of the Problems
    by Jacob (Jake) Myron

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