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Can someone please tell me if this Barometric Damper is oriented the correct way?

rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
Hi, The damper is set to Vertical mount position based on the weight placement. However, this damper is mounted on an angled pipe. Should I rotate the damper so that it is completely vertical or is this ok as is? Thank you
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Comments

  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 13,108
    The axle of the damper has to be horizontal to function properly.
    Br. Jamie, osb

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
    STEVEusaPAdelta TGrallert
  • ChrisJChrisJ Member Posts: 11,142
    I'd want it corrected as Jamie said and I'd take that as a vertical pipe. However I'd want the burner tuned using a combustion analyzer at which time the damper would be set for proper draft so the actual numbers near the weight wouldn't mean much.

    @STEVEusaPA Your thoughts?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    STEVEusaPA
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    So what I'm understanding is to unscrew the damper rotate it until the label sticker is horizontal and then leave the weight set as is (vertical setting). Correct?

    The door swings smoothly as it is now. I'm trying to understand why rotating the damper would matter if the door swings freely. Thank you.
  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Member Posts: 4,308
    edited February 13
    Wrong, as mentioned by @Jamie Hall & @ChrisJ. What Jamie said. The two protruding pivot pins (where it swings) should be horizontal (level).
    And the face has to be plumb. Then you can set a proper over fire draft.
    But the flue pipe is the wrong gauge...oops.
    steve
  • SteamheadSteamhead Member Posts: 13,929
    @rccrfan , it affects the way the weights balance each other. Whoever installed that didn't read the instructions.

    Where are you located?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    "Reducing our country's energy consumption, one system at a time"
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Baltimore, MD (USA) and consulting anywhere.
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/all-steamed-up-inc
  • pecmsgpecmsg Member Posts: 1,465
    PVC on the relief valve?
    mattmia2
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    edited February 13
    The boiler documentation indicates that the flue pipe should remain the same diameter as the boiler outlet (which is 5") so I'm not sure why you're saying it is the wrong diameter? The flue pipe goes into a stainless steel chimney liner which is also 5". The chimney is exterior on the side of the house with 2 flues. One for a wood stove and the other for the boiler.

    I'm in CT
  • ChrisJChrisJ Member Posts: 11,142
    > @rccrfan said:
    > The boiler documentation indicates that the flue pipe should remain the same diameter as the boiler outlet (which is 5") so I'm not sure why you're saying it is the wrong diameter? The flue pipe goes into a stainless steel chimney liner which is also 5". The chimney is exterior on the side of the house with 2 flues. One for a wood stove and the other for the boiler.
    >
    > I'm in CT

    He said gauge as in wall thickness. Though I'm not sure how he could tell from a picture.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    rick in Alaska
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    I don't understand what wall thickness is? Do you mean the actual thickness of the flue pipes? They're the approved vent pipes that the manual recommends. I'm just a homeowner I don't work in the trade and I am trying to better understand.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Member Posts: 11,142
    > @rccrfan said:
    > I don't understand what wall thickness is? Do you mean the actual thickness of the flue pipes? They're the approved vent pipes that the manual recommends. I'm just a homeowner I don't work in the trade and I am trying to better understand.

    The thickness of the metal the pipes are made from.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    Ok. Yea, they’re the ones that came with it.
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51

    Fixed. Thank you guys
  • ChrisJChrisJ Member Posts: 11,142
    > @rccrfan said:
    > (Image)
    >
    > Fixed. Thank you guys

    Is it plumb across the face?
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    Yes, there is a ring/ridge on the damper And it sits flush against the pipe
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
  • Jamie HallJamie Hall Member Posts: 13,108
    Bravo!
    Br. Jamie, osb

    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England.

    Hoffman Equipped System (all original except boiler), Weil-Mclain 580, 2.75 gph Carlin, Vapourstat 0.5 -- 6.0 ounces per square inch
  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Member Posts: 4,308
    My bad, optical confusion :) Thought it was 6" flue pipe and 26 gauge, which it would have to be a minimum of 24 gauge. But your ok with 5" & 26 gauge.
    Now you need to set up the over fire draft with a draft gauge.
    steve
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,619
    pecmsg said:

    PVC on the relief valve?

    I like that they bothered to prime it even though it doesn't have an acceptable temperature rating.
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    I think its rated at 300 degrees, but yea I have never been crazy with the PVC there. I'll probably replace it at some point.
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,619
    international mechanical code 1006.6
    13. Be constructed of those materials listed in Section
    605.4 of the International Plumbing Code or materials tested, rated and approved for such use in accordance with ASME A112.4.1.
    international plumbing code 605.4 does not list a spec for pvc

    (or the residential sections stating the same)
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Member Posts: 3,468
    Well it's plumb and level but it's not fixed.
    Looks like a Buderus G115.
    Draft needs to be adjusted for 0 to +.01 over fire and -.02 at the breach. The only way that can be done is with a draft gauge, 0 smoke, and combustion test.
    Do you have an experienced tech to service and maintain?
    They should leave a printout of the combustion report at the time of the annual maintenance.
    mattmia2
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    The boiler install isn’t new, what happened was the flue started deteriorating (1950’s Ranch exterior double flue brick chimney). I was hearing the actual clay pieces breaking off and falling down the chimney so I had a SS liner installed. The flue pipe with the damper was vertical on the old flue setup, the new SS Liner setup resulted in the flue pipe with the damper being angled as pictured.

    The boiler itself was setup 4 years back when it was installed ( combustion test, draft, smoke, which is zero, etc.)

    I just though it odd looking that the damper wasn’t rotated when the reinstalled the pipe it is on. It was a chimney company that installs these as well as wood stoves, rebuilds chimneys etc.

    Unfortunately based on my recent experiences with the younger workforce is that they’re not technically knowledgeable. They’re able to do the task at hand but when it comes to a more in depth understanding of how things work, they’re lacking. I would think that they would have saw the damper and have known enough to rotate it so the axle was horizontal.

    I know I could have called the company and complained etc. but for me it is just easier to correct the minor problem myself. I don’t want them sending the same guy back that should have known enough to do it right the first time. Which led me to this forum.

    I see it everywhere, the skilled trades are having a hard time filling technical jobs. Heck, I used home advisor to installs screen door and the young guy mounted the handle 4 inches away from the catch on the frame and tried to remedy it by mounting a 3 inch block of wood in the door frame for the catch to mount to. For that one I did call and complain and they paid me for a new door and I just did it myself - bad back and all. Motrin is cheaper than the stress of dealing with incompetence.
    ratio
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Member Posts: 3,468
    edited February 14
    > @rccrfan said:
    >
    > The boiler itself was setup 4 years back when it was installed ( combustion test, draft, smoke, which is zero, etc.)
    >
    >

    4 years is not annual maintenance.
    The new liner will alter the draft.
    Find an experienced old tech then, but get it serviced. It's not a refrigerator where you set in place and walk away. It needs love and attention.
    mattmia2
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    edited February 14
    oh, it does get annual maintenance just to be clear. I was just telling the backstory.

    Every tech I've had out here since the early to mid 2000's has been the next gen of younger workers. I don't know if its a regional thing of being mostly younger trades people but yea, I haven't seen an old tech in years.

    Not just for boiler stuff either- I've had a new deck and stonework done- all 20 somethings. I've had a new roof- all youngsters. Even the guys that did the boiler and indirect water heater were young. Its changing of the guards around here.
  • BillyOBillyO Member Posts: 208
    you need experience in the trade, tell me how a young kid can come and correctly troubleshoot? we are the old timers and dinosaurs of the trade my friends.
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    This is why I try and understand stuff myself around the house. A rushed young guy worries me.

    I do tent the refrigerator with an old sheet once a year and blow the coil underneath off. The tent keeps the kitchen from getting cat hair and dust everywhere.
  • mikeg2015mikeg2015 Member Posts: 1,178
    Is that foil tape on single wall Flue pipe? Just checking. I see that all too often in my neck of the woods.
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    Its all single wall. I asked the chimney guy if it should be used and he said they use it on all reline jobs. It's rated at 300 degrees. They said the pipes are already making a good sealed connection and they use the tape as an added measure. Should I be concerned?
    mattmia2
  • BillyOBillyO Member Posts: 208
    when we were in our 20s we had 10 years of working under our belt, whether it be a paper route or washing dishes in local catering hall etc..... for mere peanuts for pay. These kids now at 20 are on their first job and want top pay after 3rd paycheck.
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    Forgot to mention that all the pipe joints are screwed together under the foil tape.
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    Yea I am one of those homeowners that follows behind workers when they're here. Back when I had my A/C installed I had to remind them that there were dip switches to configure the variable speed air handler for comfort "R" (Trane)

    For the deck I had to remind them to install the hurricane ties which were in the contract but they didn't install until I reminded them.

    The boiler and indirect were the prize. You won't believe it- they actually forgot the gasket between the boiler and the burner. He had to unbolt it and install the gasket. That was another one where I had to call the owner and chew him out about his installers. After that phone call, they were sure to be more watchful.

    I hate to be one of those pain in the **** homeowners but can you blame me? What if I didn't keep an eye on things around here? I don't want to imagine.
  • GrallertGrallert Member Posts: 445
    The tape is going to see flue temps higher than 300F and it's going to melt. Not that it really matters the tape is not needed in the first place the will or should always be a negative draft at those seams. If someone puts an analyzer on that boiler and checks the draft you might find that the draft regulator is not needed at all.
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    edited February 14
    I will say I have a good plumber I use. He did some drainwork in the basement to plumb the kitchen drain which was hooked to a drywell in the yard. at the time- he hooled it to the main city drain in the basement. I guess at some point in the 1990's the city installed sewer pipes and the septic tank here was taken out and the main sewer line was hooked to city sewer.

    For whatever reason the kitchen drain wasn't connected because it went through another part of the foundation to the drywell.

    Anyway, the plumber was good. He even lined up the writing on the PVC pipes when he would join to pieces together.
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    I did try and use my thermal temp laser to measure the pipes temperature but it’s reflective so the reading wasn’t accurate. The boiler breach is black cast iron though and it reads around 250 degrees.
    The actual flue temp via combustion anaylizer around 375 degrees so I am thinking the tape will eventually come unstuck. At that point I’d probably just get some 600 degree 3M foil tape and re do it.
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,619
    BillyO said:

    when we were in our 20s we had 10 years of working under our belt, whether it be a paper route or washing dishes in local catering hall etc..... for mere peanuts for pay. These kids now at 20 are on their first job and want top pay after 3rd paycheck.

    And they find that somewhere else so if the trades dont pay that you dont get the people that can think it through.

    Then you top that off with expecting them to do 5 jobs in one day and evaluate them on if they did x jobs in this time, not if they were correct.

    The business philosophy developed based on the short term stock price causes large companies to always pick "cheap" and "fast" of the good, cheap, fast triangle.
  • STEVEusaPASTEVEusaPA Member Posts: 4,308
    edited February 14
    You don't need any tape. 3 screws per joint, equally spaced.
    But the draft does need to be set with an analyzer/manometer.

    Can't believe (well I can) that either the person who lined the chimney, or anyone performing your annual maintenance, couldn't take the 8 seconds to properly orient the damper.
    Tells me they didn't set up your burner or do a proper combustion analysis either.
    steve
    mattmia2SuperTechicy78
  • rccrfanrccrfan Member Posts: 51
    The liner was just done the other day. The annual boiler tune is in the fall so he wouldn't have seen that yet. The chimney guys were young and apparently didn't know better. Leading back to they're competent enough to do the lining labor and hookup but when it comes to more in depth knowledge they're lacking.

    I hate to think how many other liners they've done where this kind of configuration was needed and they didn't change the damper orientation. And a lot of homeowners don't know to check or even care. They put blind faith in that the company doing the work are thorough .
  • mattmia2mattmia2 Member Posts: 1,619
    The bigger issue is that if you change the vent configuration like that, the combustion needs to be re-adjusted to the new vent. If it is an oil burner or any other form of power burner that is an absolute must. Presumably someone at the company has a mechanical license and knows that.
    icy78
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