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press vs labor charge
outofplumb
Member Posts: 5
what are thoughts regarding lost labor charges when press tool saves time
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Comments
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Charge by the job, not by the hour.
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how about the gained production ? its a no brainer0
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It is like 5x the material cost, you are trading material cost for labor.
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in a service call situation not knowing what you are up against ahead of time and a schedule to keep,cost plus0
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tool rental? flat rate does not work in this market...too small
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Charge by the job instead of the hour, or raise your hourly rate if it's of concern. I haven't charged hourly for piping in years, everything is a hard number because I know roughly how long it's going to take regardless of method. It's a lot easier for most people to swallow just agreeing on a hard number, than it is to see you standing there at $X/hr reading a manual or calling the supply house or whatever. Then there are some folks that ask for the hard number, agree to it, then go bananas when the job is done in 2 hours because that's $X/hr or whatever. Like it somehow makes me a crook just because I can do it 4x faster than the other guy. Just had this guy about a month ago, argued that point and then offered to pay 1/4 of what we agreed on because it went quickly. So I grabbed my band saw and headed over to cut my boiler off the wall. He coughed up the money pretty quick, but made sure to let me know that I was a criminal for only taking 4 hours because he thought it was going to take 2 days0
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understand that scenario,but in quick day to day service you can not anticipate what is at the job.all customers have a differing view of what needs to be done0
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One of the many reasons I don't take service calls. Too many variables0
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I just think of the service calls a press job will create in the future...Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
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I recently worked for a company that charged an hourly rate and charged for parts..
Every customer bargained down the price and the company allowed it to happen.
I left because I did not like being on a losing team.. plus we serviced to worst of the worst, tenets and equipment0 -
If it's a repair or service, I generally will give a fixed quote with the clause that it allows up to so many hours. If it takes longer or other issues arise, then that will be additional. I also try to verbally communicate the same info as clearly as possible to avoid any misunderstanding.
There will always be jerks who try to pull a fast one like Groundup mentioned. Just make sure you have it in your contracts and invoices that you retain title to any equipment and material until final payment is made and that you can remove that without being held liable for any damages resulting from its removal. Also state that your warranty becomes void if payment is not made as agreed upon.
Then, never do any work for that person again.Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
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Exactly, raise your prices. Working cheap is destroying trade0
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most importantly is knowing what it actually cost you to be in business, and spread that over maybe 1500 billable hours per year?
For new work and new installation it is getting tough to put much markup on materials when most EVERYTHING is available at Amazon:)
So as a result many contractors cover their costs in the billable hour.
Start the calculation with what you want to make. $100.000 per year before taxes? $100,000 divided by 1500 hours= $66.00/hr, just to pay yourself!Bob "hot rod" Rohr
trainer for Caleffi NA
Living the hydronic dream
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Then add Profit for the Company to grow and expand.hot_rod said:most importantly is knowing what it actually cost you to be in business, and spread that over maybe 1500 billable hours per year?
For new work and new installation it is getting tough to put much markup on materials when most EVERYTHING is available at Amazon:)
So as a result many contractors cover their costs in the billable hour.
Start the calculation with what you want to make. $100.000 per year before taxes? $100,000 divided by 1500 hours= $66.00/hr, just to pay yourself!
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This is why I work for others, I think about what I have in to it, not what people will pay for it.
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How many times have we been on a job and it took 1, 2, 3+ hrs too stop the water flow enough to solder. Worse the valve you thought held didn't after its too late!0
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Press up to 1 1/2"
after that ...
well, for the $200 for a 3" press T
I can spend a LOT of labor0 -
To the initial post..
Instead of thinking of the lost labor from using a more efficient tool, or piece of hardware. That efficiency allows you to do possibly more jobs in a day,week,month, or a year.
Think volume. If the work is out there the more you get of the market share the better. You can’t expect to make a living on a handful of customers, or charge exuberant fees for lack of volume.
Like @hot_rod Pointed out. You need to know your business costs, and what you need to make to live.
The world is changing do to elevated productivity. That stems from many facets. It creates competition, and it drives down profit margins because of competition.0 -
exactly, more production.0
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> @B_Sloane said:
> Press up to 1 1/2"
> after that ...
> well, for the $200 for a 3" press T
> I can spend a LOT of labor
Let me ask, how long to drain the pipe and solder in that T?
With a press the pipe doesn’t have to be dry and the time to make 3 press fittings 1 1/2 minutes0 -
Pro press is a no brainer, but most can't get past material cost.0
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All of your overhead cost is on labor; almost nothing on materials. Reducing labor cost is the goal, even if it means paying more for materials (within reason).
Example: a job costs $100; $50 labor and $50 for materials. If using ProPress changes the ratio to $25 labor and $75 for materials, then I'm better off financially because I'm only paying overhead on $25 instead of $50. Overhead being all of the taxes and insurance and such that's tacked on to labor.Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
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Another consideration: a lot of jobs require a hot permit when using a torch. That involves another man standing by in case of a fire. Now you've got twice the labor and all of its overhead in addition to the costs and hassle of the permit. None of that is incurred with ProPress.
To me, it's like using pump iso flanges: the amount of time draining, filling and purging is eliminated when they're used. Why would one try to cheap out and not install them?Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.0 -
> @outofplumb said:
> what are thoughts regarding lost labor charges when press tool saves time
Propress rates should be different then regular hourly rates. Why should customer come out ahead just because you spent few thousand dollars on a tool. Helicopter for hire rates are more then car for hire rates, even though and because the helicopter gets the customer to the destination quicker.1 -
I just bumped into an electrical outfit out of Mass. that has a 4 hour minimum. My eyes nearly fell out of my head. In vermont they would fight me!!
I love my propress, it has its place in my truck, fittings are pricey, but on service work the customer pays for that, and I am much more productive. I can do double the amount of service calls in a day if they are all copper related. On bid jobs it helps to be very quick, but also the home owner cant argue pricing, when they look up the price per 3/4 press 90 online they get queasyTom
Montpelier Vt0 -
I have 3 snowmelt systems 10 plus years old with all pro press and not one glycol stain. My soldered systems all have glycol staining . Pro press a no brainer0
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pecmsg said:B_Sloane said:
r
I am not against pressing fittings
as one poster pointed out, he can do double the amount of service calls per day using such
and in your instance shown here, I would have pressed this seeing it had glycol
( well, assuming I still had that size jaw, they were "liberated" )
further, I see that pressed fittings leak glycol, I re-piped such a job once
for my business, institutional installation and repair, I do not have to worry about price/time competition, and may only work on a job every couple days0
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