Toilet wax rings

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Gary: Whenever the toilet flange is below the level of the finished floor, I add a regular wax ring on top of the No-Seep because I've found that one No-Seep hardly gets compressed. The only time I use a single No-Seep is when the flange sits on top of the finished floor.
And I always use long closet bolts, all brass - which are getting hard to find - double nuts to hold them in place. It also makes it easy for the next guy when the bolts don't spin around.
Remember Tinneman clips? They were useless.

PC7060

ChrisJ said:

I've heard rumor that you install the wax ring on the toilet, not on the flange.

Opinions?

I’ve heard that too but in practice it’s a pain. Much easier and effective to seat the seal on the floor flange then set the terlet. 

jumper

EdTheHeaterMan said:

This post belongs in Dan's discussion called "What did you think would never last".

I never thought a discussion called "Toilet Wax Rings" would go on for 3 years long!

It is an interesting subject. Ideally we'd try all the gizmo s and keep records for years.

GW

Alan yes a fine balance between too much and not enough (when the flange is buried) 

spinning bolts- also try lifting on the bowl to create pressure/friction, it’s a pain but that works too. But yes your nutting down the bolts seems good 

I don’t recall the Temnamen set up

PC7060

GW said:

Alan yes a fine balance between too much and not enough (when the flange is buried) 

spinning bolts- also try lifting on the bowl to create pressure/friction, it’s a pain but that works too. But yes your nutting down the bolts seems good 

I don’t recall the Temnamen set up

My go to bolt setup are the Danco or Fluidmaster Setfast Brass Toilet Hardware Kits. Its great to be able to adjust the height of the bolt and then tighten it to the flange.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Danco-Brass-White-Toilet-Hardware-Kit-for-Universal/5013333237
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Fluidmaster-Brass-Toilet-Hardware-Kit-For-Universal/1001864038?

Alan (California Radiant) Forbes

Gary: You're too young to remember them.

GW

Alan maybe I recall, I just always used the normal bolts. I've been popping bowls since the mid 80s.

Intplm.

The discharge on the toilet measured above by @GW is smaller because the toilet is designed to break apart flushed material as it exits the toilet and then enters the sanitary drainage piping.
Wax rings are designed with the size of the closet flange in mind.

TAG

Old toilets had longer horns -- today the horns are even with the bottom. My guess for easy packaging and shipping. I'm a toilet nerd ... my old Kohler one piece all have horns that extend a bit beyond the base ..... have to be careful not to damage. American Standard even more so.

The wax ring should never see water .... waste exits the horn and dumps into the drain. With the flange set where it should be (on top of the floor) the horn will extend into the drain. I almost never use a flanged wax ring -- they just get in the way.

jumper

TAG said:

Old toilets had longer horns -- today the horns are even with the bottom. My guess for easy packaging and shipping. I'm a toilet nerd ... my old Kohler one piece all have horns that extend a bit beyond the base ..... have to be careful not to damage. American Standard even more so.

The wax ring should never see water .... waste exits the horn and dumps into the drain. With the flange set where it should be (on top of the floor) the horn will extend into the drain. I almost never use a flanged wax ring -- they just get in the way.

Best explanation I've heard for how flushing is supposed to work. But I see 100 year old homes with small drains. What happens then?

ChrisJ

jumper said:

TAG said:

Old toilets had longer horns -- today the horns are even with the bottom. My guess for easy packaging and shipping. I'm a toilet nerd ... my old Kohler one piece all have horns that extend a bit beyond the base ..... have to be careful not to damage. American Standard even more so.

The wax ring should never see water .... waste exits the horn and dumps into the drain. With the flange set where it should be (on top of the floor) the horn will extend into the drain. I almost never use a flanged wax ring -- they just get in the way.

Best explanation I've heard for how flushing is supposed to work. But I see 100 year old homes with small drains. What happens then?

Smaller than what comes out of the toilet? What is that opening, 2"?
My 1910 sewer setup is all 4".

The wax will see water and some slight pressure if the drain is clogged after the toilet.

ChrisJ

Pulled my first toilet.
It had a horn with pretty much all of the wax squeezed off the plastic 

Installed the new toilet with just a pain ring.
No issues yet that I can see.

Let's hope the 2022 1.6 gal Kohler flushes better than the 1990s 1.6 Kohler.  Honestly the worst toilet I've owned.

ethicalpaul

Punishing poor performance with a repeat purchase!

ChrisJ

ethicalpaul said:

Punishing poor performance with a repeat purchase!

No,

I've been assured they have improved greatly.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I have 2 1.6 Kohlers and they work fine. One is elongated and one is round. The elongated flushes "OK' the round would take your arm off. They are both probably 14 years or so old.

Not a plumber but I removed a 50-year-old Kohler for my nephew in one of his rental properties a few days back. Couldn't get the old one to stop running consistently. Tried new flappers etc. Kohler doesn't make the flush valve anymore and I got tired of fooling with it, and you know how "universal" replacement parts are ....they don't fit anything.

I lucked out ...sort of. The old CI flange was in perfect shape and on top of the floor. Put in a cheap HD American Standard 1.25 Gallon flush...will see how that goes.

But tweaked my back lugging the new one up to the second floor or the old one down.

My brother was supposed to help but him and his wife came down with Covid. She had it first light case and she is just about back to normal after a week or so. He just found out yesterday after re testing.

Intplm.

Kohler toilets.

I have installed hundreds. Maybe more than a thousand over the years.
I have found that their improvements are above their own and their competitors' brand models.

One suggestion I have is to purchase there toilet that has a cylindrical flush valve rather than the common flapper-type flush valve.

Cylindrical tends to flush with less alignment failure.

And they clear the bowl cleanly when flushed too.

ChrisJ

Intplm. said:

Kohler toilets.

I have installed hundreds. Maybe more than a thousand over the years.
I have found that their improvements are above their own and their competitors' brand models.

One suggestion I have is to purchase there toilet that has a cylindrical flush valve rather than the common flapper-type flush valve.

Cylindrical tends to flush with less alignment failure.

And they clear the bowl cleanly when flushed too.

A thousand toilets............that's a lot of toilets.

I went with a Memoirs Stately and it has the cylinder.
I noticed it flushes a whole lot easier than the 2006 Kohler's my dad has that use the big flapper.

Intplm.

@ChrisJ
That's a really good toilet. You will probably be happy with it.
I just looked at a YouTube video as to what I was talking about concerning your uponor shut-off valve.
I couldn't get it to post here.
Go take a look. It will explain things a bit further than I can.
I too was confused at first some time ago. No youtube video back then.