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Toilet wax rings

ChrisJChrisJ Member Posts: 10,677
Hi all

I need to pull a toilet and then put it back and then a few months later pull it again. As far as I know, the flange should be ontop on the finished floor.

What should I get ahead of time just so I'm prepared?

I was thinking a normal wax ring without the horn and a set of 5/16 closet bolts.

Thoughts on the "wax free" ones? And what's the deal with the rubber horn? Some claim it's a restriction and it's only if you need to use more than one ring or an extra thick ring etc..
Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment

Comments

  • Alan (California Radiant) ForbesAlan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 2,154
    edited December 2019
    Take a 4x3 No-Seep if the pipe is 3" and a full 4" No-Seep if the pipe is 4". No-Seep's are the ones with the plastic horn. The plastic horn is VERY important.

    Also take a 4" regular wax ring (no plastic horn) in case the flange is not sitting on top of the finished floor in which case install this ring on top of the No-Seep.

    If the flange is more than half an inch below finished floor, use a flange extension kit that has pancakes of extension pieces.

    Make sure the toilet flange is anchored securely to the subfloor as this is what holds the toilet securely in place. If it isn't secure, the toilet will wobble and the wax seal will be compromised.

    Use all brass closet bolts if you can find them and double nut them; one nut and washer on the flange and the other on the toilet. Use best quality brass nuts and stainless washers.

    I've never tried non-wax seals; don't trust them.
    Often wrong, never in doubt.

    Click here to learn more about this contractor.
    ChrisJSTEVEusaPA
  • ChrisJChrisJ Member Posts: 10,677
    > @Alan (California Radiant) Forbes said:
    > Take a 4x3 No-Seep if the pipe is 3" and a full 4" No-Seep if the pipe is 4". No-Seep's are the ones with the plastic horn. The plastic horn is VERY important.
    >
    > Also take a 4" regular wax ring (no plastic horn) in case the flange is not sitting on top of the finished floor in which case install this ring on top of the No-Seep.
    >
    > If the flange is more than half an inch below finished floor, use a flange extension kit that has pancakes of extension pieces.
    >
    > Make sure the toilet flange is anchored securely to the subfloor as this is what holds the toilet securely in place. If it isn't secure, the toilet will wobble and the wax seal will be compromised.
    >
    > I've never tried non-wax seals; don't trust them.

    I should've mentioned the size etc

    It's a 3" that was installed in the 1980s.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsgpecmsg Member Posts: 1,258
    Agreed get supports Under the sub floor and anchor that ring down.
    Wax ring with flange
    Plaster of Paris around bowl parameter if mounting on tile!
    ChrisJ
  • hot_rodhot_rod Member Posts: 12,954
    Look fir Harvey’s brand. They have extra thick versions if the flange is deep. Some models have foam inside the wax, The rubber or foam type work best with radiant tile floors.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    The magic is in hydronics, and hydronics is in me
    MikeL_2
  • Intplm.Intplm. Member Posts: 1,093
    @ChrisJ Have a few wax gaskets ready for when you pull the toilet and then reinstall it.
    Remember not to cut the closet bolts until you are installing the toilet for the last time.
    The advice about the closet flange above. Do that.
    And depending on how much floor you are adding, ie, raising it up or down. You can use extra long closet bolts for that.
    ChrisJ
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Member Posts: 6,628
    20 + years ago I had no access to longer bolts or PVC flange extension rings. For the bolts, I sawed them in half and soldered 3/8 ACR copper as an extension between the cuts. Used extra wax ring on the no seep. Have upgraded all since then.

    Also having laid about 12-1400 sq feet of tile around the house and being really slow, I had a lot of time to worry about water damage. So each room where the floor tiles and SR meet was caulked around the perimeter of all walls. This is an attempt to keep water out of the 1 1/4" wood sandwich that most of the tile is laid on. With the BB trim secured I had visions of being able to have water an inch standing before the sub floor would get wet.

    And just to justify why people call me anal about worrying about such things too much :# .......I drill 1/4" holes around the WC flanges and do not caulk the base of the bowl. I want any water to go down to be found in the basement or come out from under the WC. The DW got a couple of 2" drain holes under it also.
    Ceilings are cheaper to repair than ceramic tile or oak floors, IMO.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Member Posts: 10,677
    > @JUGHNE said:
    > 20 + years ago I had no access to longer bolts or PVC flange extension rings. For the bolts, I sawed them in half and soldered 3/8 ACR copper as an extension between the cuts. Used extra wax ring on the no seep. Have upgraded all since then.
    >
    > Also having laid about 12-1400 sq feet of tile around the house and being really slow, I had a lot of time to worry about water damage. So each room where the floor tiles and SR meet was caulked around the perimeter of all walls. This is an attempt to keep water out of the 1 1/4" wood sandwich that most of the tile is laid on. With the BB trim secured I had visions of being able to have water an inch standing before the sub floor would get wet.
    >
    > And just to justify why people call me anal about worrying about such things too much :# .......I drill 1/4" holes around the WC flanges and do not caulk the base of the bowl. I want any water to go down to be found in the basement or come out from under the WC. The DW got a couple of 2" drain holes under it also.
    > Ceilings are cheaper to repair than ceramic tile or oak floors, IMO.

    This toilet isn't caulked and all I'll say is having two young boys it'll be caulked when I put the new final bowl down.

    The floor isn't level and any missing goes right under. It's going to be real fun when we pull it.......

    The back can stay open but the front and sides need sealing.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • GordyGordy Member Posts: 9,523
    Fernco no wax toilet rings are the bomb!
  • BigErlBigErl Member Posts: 27
    If there’s a flexible supply line, I would put a new one. Preferably one with a metal nut at the top.
  • MikeL_2MikeL_2 Member Posts: 236
    edited March 3
    I agree with toilet water supply connectors; we use braided flexible supplies with metal nuts top & bottom.
    We also install brass nuts when using chrome plated soft copper supply tubes.
    We caulk or grout all fixtures where they meet floors & walls. The IRC requires all fixtures to be sealed " water tight " where they contact flooring.
    I've been reparing & installing toilets for over 50 years and find the most issues with toilets set on an unstable floor and incorrect flange
  • ChrisJChrisJ Member Posts: 10,677
    > @MikeL_2 said:
    > I agree with toilet water supply connectors; we use braided flexible supplies with metal nuts top & bottom.
    > We also install brass nuts when using chrome plated soft copper.
    > We caulk or grout all fixtures where they meet floors & walls. The IRC requires all fixtures to be sealed " water tight " where they contact flooring.
    > I've been reparing & installing toilets for over 50 years and find the most issues with toilets set on an unstable floor and incorrect flange

    And what about wax rings? Horn vs no horn etc
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • MikeL_2MikeL_2 Member Posts: 236
    Chris,
    I prefer standard thickness wax gaskets with a plastic horn.....
  • ethicalpaulethicalpaul Member Posts: 1,515
    Here’s what I used. I have no doubt that plumbers hate them, but I’d like to hear why other than superstition.

    Perfect in your application. Can even be re-seated at different heights.

    https://www.homedepot.com/p/205762183
    1 pipe Utica 112 in Cedar Grove, NJ, 1913 coal > oil > NG
  • FredFred Member Posts: 8,374
    I used a wax free ring with a plastic horn on a new toilet I installed last year. It came with different rings to use depending on how deep the flange was set below the floor. Great for concrete. The toilet I replaced was in the basement.
    Anyway it worked well. Question is will it last as long as the wax ring?
  • MikeL_2MikeL_2 Member Posts: 236
    Paul,
    A correctly installed toilet includes a watertight / airtight gasket seal at the bowl horn & floor flange; this gasket will never contact water unless there is a blockage & back up in the connected soil piping. The bowls horn protects the wax or other seal from probing by an auger or snake, water flow erosion, rodent gnawing, etc.
    In my opinion, toilet gaskets should never be exposed to probing or water flow erosion....
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
  • MikeL_2 said:

    Paul,

    A correctly installed toilet includes a watertight / airtight gasket seal at the bowl horn & floor flange; this gasket will never contact water unless there is a blockage & back up in the connected soil piping. The bowls horn protects the wax or other seal from probing by an auger or snake, water flow erosion, rodent gnawing, etc.

    In my opinion, toilet gaskets should never be exposed to probing or water flow erosion....

    I'd never know that about the bowl's horn. Thanks!
    Often wrong, never in doubt.

    Click here to learn more about this contractor.
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