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Another HTP UFT Install

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Ironman
Ironman Member Posts: 7,400
edited November 2019 in THE MAIN WALL
After 45 years of service, this old Bryant wouldn't stop sooting up. No matter how much cleaning was done by another tech, it still kept sooting, which is something these old Bryants seem to be prone to do.



So, this is what we put in:






Bob Boan
You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
Alan (California Radiant) ForbesRich_49mattmia2kcoppSolid_Fuel_Man

Comments

  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
    Alan (California Radiant) Forbes Member Posts: 4,109
    edited November 2019
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    Wow, direct piping; nice and simple. Very nice work.

    I love large, single-zone systems. Makes life a whole lot easier.

    Is that PVC on the exhaust?
    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
    Ironman
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,497
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    nice and clean, and all that floor space they gained!
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Ironman
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,400
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    Wow, direct piping; nice and simple. Very nice work.

    I love large, single-zone systems. Makes life a whole lot easier.

    Is that PVC on the exhaust?

    Yes, PVC.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,390
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    Hi Bob, I'm just a DHW guy... What is happening just above the expansion tank? The three "items" there; what do they do? I don't think I've ever seen that arrangement. :o

    Yours, Larry
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,497
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    Caleffi AutoFill & BFD combo. Maybe a Webstone tank isolation and drain valve right on the tank. As good as it gets :)
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
    Larry WeingartenIronman
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,974
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    Where is the vent? Or is that just a dirt separator and you are just using the vent built in to the boiler?
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,400
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    There's a vent on the boiler, but it's a CI radiator system so an MBR does little good on that type system. CI rad's are the best air separators you can have since the air in the system is going right to the top of them.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    mattmia2SeanBeans
  • Wellness
    Wellness Member Posts: 143
    edited November 2019
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    Couple of observations, I see the boiler is in the same room as the laundry room. which many manufacturers advise against because cholrine is highly corrosive to copper, brass and other common plumbing materials. I'm not being critical here because my boiler is next to my laundry room (although physically separated with drywall) and draws air from a hallway; in addition, I imagine most utility rooms are close to if not in the same room as washing machines and dryers because of existing plumbing and piping. Maybe some pros can weigh in on how significant an issue is chlorine contamination of boilers? Also, as @Alan pointed out, I presume HTC allows PVC instead of CPVC on exhaust piping?
  • Solid_Fuel_Man
    Solid_Fuel_Man Member Posts: 2,646
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    Sealed combustion, outdoor air is used for the burner.

    The old Bryant would have drawn in all that stuff through the burner and hood.
    Serving Northern Maine HVAC & Controls. I burn wood, it smells good!
    mattmia2
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,400
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    Wellness said:

    Couple of observations, I see the boiler is in the same room as the laundry room. which many manufacturers advise against because cholrine is highly corrosive to copper, brass and other common plumbing materials. I'm not being critical here because my boiler is next to my laundry room (although physically separated with drywall) and draws air from a hallway; in addition, I imagine most utility rooms are close to if not in the same room as washing machines and dryers because of existing plumbing and piping. Maybe some pros can weigh in on how significant an issue is chlorine contamination of boilers? Also, as @Alan pointed out, I presume HTC allows PVC instead of CPVC on exhaust piping?

    It's in the basement where the the existing boiler was. Where would you propose that I move it to? What you're referring to would be an open combustion appliance like the old boiler. The new boiler is sealed combustion as indicated by the two pipes.

    And yes, PVC is clearly listed in the I/O manual so long as the gray 3x6" CPVC nipple provided with the boiler is used.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    mattmia2
  • Wellness
    Wellness Member Posts: 143
    edited November 2019
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    @Ironman, I was not being critical. As I said in my initial post, most utility rooms are in or next to the laundry room because that's where water lines are readily available. My question was, has anyone seen any evidence of chlorine contamination of boilers located in or next to laundry rooms. I've seen it in boilers used to heat pools but not in laundry rooms. Just wondering why manufacturers (at least the Lochinvar and Triangle Tube manuals I've read) warn against putting even condensing boilers, that use outside combusion air, in a laudry area.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,607
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    Wellness said:

    @Ironman, I was not being critical. As I said in my initial post, most utility rooms are in or next to the laundry room because that's where water lines are readily available. My question was, has anyone seen any evidence of chlorine contamination of boilers located in or next to laundry rooms. I've seen it in boilers used to heat pools but not in laundry rooms. Just wondering why manufacturers (at least the Lochinvar and Triangle Tube manuals I've read) warn against putting even condensing boilers, that use outside combusion air, in a laudry area.

    I have seen premature boiler failures due to chlorine exposure in pool mech rooms. The boilers were pulling chlorine ladened air in for combustion. Chlorides and refrigerant gasses are the Achilles heel of many types of stainless.
    I would have no reservations about any sealed combustion boiler in a residential laundry area.

    @Ironman , Nice install. Way to keep it simple. :)
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    Ironman
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,111
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    Looks good, Ironman. Is there a reason to not put a valve between the dirt separator and old piping? That way all components at the boiler could be serviced with out draining the system. Just curious not critical.
    I look for easy in the future, to not have to bleed 2 floors of CI.

    Do you think the old boiler suffered from lack of combustion air competing with the dryer exhaust? Plus the lint would compound problems.

    Most laundry bleach is more diluted than it used to be.
    And detergents claim to make whiter whites without bleach.
    I believe less bleach is used regardless.

    My med tech wife tells me that they have to clean/sanitize their lab surfaces with old school bleach and not laundry room bleach.

    And of course 2 pipe sealed combustion makes the point moot.
    Ironman
  • STEVEusaPA
    STEVEusaPA Member Posts: 6,505
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    Thing of beauty Bob, sophisticated yet simple, excellent execution.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    Ironman
  • pecmsg
    pecmsg Member Posts: 4,967
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    1 Question

    What is that copper line coming out of the clean out behind the washer?
    mattmia2
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,400
    edited November 2019
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    JUGHNE said:

    Looks good, Ironman. Is there a reason to not put a valve between the dirt separator and old piping? That way all components at the boiler could be serviced with out draining the system. Just curious not critical.
    I look for easy in the future, to not have to bleed 2 floors of CI.

    Do you think the old boiler suffered from lack of combustion air competing with the dryer exhaust? Plus the lint would compound problems.

    Most laundry bleach is more diluted than it used to be.
    And detergents claim to make whiter whites without bleach.
    I believe less bleach is used regardless.

    My med tech wife tells me that they have to clean/sanitize their lab surfaces with old school bleach and not laundry room bleach.

    And of course 2 pipe sealed combustion makes the point moot.

    There's a valve on the boiler return connection. Since the DirtMag can't be disassembled, I don't see where it would make a difference putting it upstream in this application.

    No, I don't think combustion air was the issue since it's a large open basement and the door to upstairs stays open. As I mentioned, this seems to be an issue with these old Bryants.

    Correction: I should have said "since the DirtMag shouldn't need to be disassembled".

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,400
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    pecmsg said:

    1 Question



    What is that copper line coming out of the clean out behind the washer?

    Gas line to a set of gas logs that someone else before ran.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    Solid_Fuel_Man
  • SeanBeans
    SeanBeans Member Posts: 520
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    @Ironman

    This was originally a Gravity system converted in the past?

    Or just a big one zoner using all CI rads?
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,400
    edited November 2019
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    SeanBeans said:

    @Ironman



    This was originally a Gravity system converted in the past?



    Or just a big one zoner using all CI rads?

    An old Monoflo system. You can see a couple of the Monoflo Tees in the upper left corner of the third pic.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • Alan (California Radiant) Forbes
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    "An old Monoflo system."

    Was it hard to bleed?

    8.33 lbs./gal. x 60 min./hr. x 20°ΔT = 10,000 BTU's/hour

    Two btu per sq ft for degree difference for a slab
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,400
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    "An old Monoflo system."

    Was it hard to bleed?

    No, it's got standing CI rad's.

    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • JUGHNE
    JUGHNE Member Posts: 11,111
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    How about the 2 AL flex lines behind the washer dryer??
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,607
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    JUGHNE said:

    How about the 2 AL flex lines behind the washer dryer??

    I am thinking those were probably out of scope. :)
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    Ironman
  • mattmia2
    mattmia2 Member Posts: 9,974
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    the mechanical inspector asked me to change my receptacle to a GFCI on my boiler. When i looked in to it, I found that the Michigan residential code had remove the exception to the gfci requirements that allowed you to have a non-protected receptacle for a permanently installed appliance. Is a non-protected receptacle still allowed where you are at?
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,400
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    @mattmia2
    It depends upon the inspector.
    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.