1870s home in Illinois. New owner.

drewbert41

Bill_Kitsch69 said:

That system calls for a vaporstat, eg L408J1017, and a pressure gauge that will read out in ounces. Hand feed is good perhaps, but put a water meter on if you are feeding regularly, and digital VXT if going to auto-feed.

I will take pictures of my water feed. It is the only thing not pictured.

drewbert41

I really feel like they slapped the new boiler in there and hardly changed anything with the piping.

drewbert41

I have the Nest 3rd gen with True Radiant and it seems to be learning well. When the therm was set to 70 it would turn off at 70 and the heat would keep building to 75 or so. Now it knows when to turn off earlier to not overshoot. I dig it so far.

WayneMech

Hi Drew. I live in Metamora, IL, and am a Pipefitter, who specializes in old steam. Let me know if I can help. I'd love to see it.

drewbert41

WayneMech said:

Hi Drew. I live in Metamora, IL, and am a Pipefitter, who specializes in old steam. Let me know if I can help. I'd love to see it.

Wayne you are welcome anytime my man. Beer, pizza, cash you name it.

I have had a few companies come and everything is so conflicted. Someone who specializes in these systems is what I need. I am super willing to get dirty and bloody too.

drewbert41

I am a Facilities manager and IT manager by trade. I am pretty handy and pretty technical. I have 0 HVAC experience though so the learning curve for all of this is a little steep.

Hap_Hazzard

drewbert41 said:

I am a Facilities manager and IT manager by trade. I am pretty handy and pretty technical. I have 0 HVAC experience though so the learning curve for all of this is a little steep.

Steep learning curves are great; it's those long, slow, arduous ones that kill ya.

Steam heat is all basic physics. There are just a couple of things that aren't intuitive, but you'll get a feel for them pretty quickly..

Jamie Hall

A clink is most likely to be expansion noises. They can be dramatic... but quite distinct from water hammer.

Learner35

I found in my experience with Dunkirk Boilers that you had to build trap headers to get them to work right. There is no difference between the sections on their HW boilers or steam boilers except the end sections have a 2 1/2" side tapping instead of 1 1/4" tapping. The velocity of steam screaming out of those boilers has to be carrying quite a bit of water with it.

You cannot make dry steam with these boilers unless you build a trap header and increase the size of the header. Noticed that there was no Hartford loop. Hard for me to imagine that you are making any dry steam in that system.

Return vents are improperly installed and probably not enough.

Good luck getting the plug out of the supply tee for skimming the boiler. Overall, a very poor near boiler piping design. It did come with a installation manual but I guess who reads these?

Better watch your PH. Saw some copper in that system. Not sure what that is piped to. Looks awful small for a supply.

Also, water supply line is piped too close to the return tapping for my comfort.

TAG

That's a great old house .... a great period in America for building design. I'm doing a 1873 church currently. I have done a few 19 century places ... I'm good at fixing plaster and working lime mortar

JUGHNE

I have gotten one of those 2 1/2" plugs out of a boiler about this age. Pick the pipe dope out where the threads meet, spray with PB Blaster and firm tapping with hammer.....several day in a row.
3 point the jaws of a big pipe wrench with 4' cheater. Hang 240 pounds on the end of the cheater and grunt.
Repeat all of the above.....eventually air acetylene torch on tee.
Grunt again and it came out.

Now looking inside you see the push nipples are maybe 1 1/4-11/2" inside diameter. This is a great place for "wand washing" the sections of the boiler. You want a good drain valve at the bottom. Or a tee in the return piping that will flow a lot of water, hopefully to a floor drain.
And then it is a good skim port also. However you want to add a reducing coupling on the 2 1/2" opening. This makes the skimming water rise up over all the sections and float oil out.
Without the reducer you are getting water out of only the closest section. IMO

This wand washing and skimming could be done this season immediately without the tear down of any piping.

drewbert41

TAG said:

That's a great old house .... a great period in America for building design. I'm doing a 1873 church currently. I have done a few 19 century places ... I'm good at fixing plaster and working lime mortar

We definitely have lime mortar.

scott w.

Wow, great house.....looks to be in nice condition. Some one took great care.

You radiators look a lot like mine except for the really ornate one.
My house was built in 1928. Guessing the ornate rad is original to the house.

Your dyed concrete porch with the red squares also match my two porches.

I am in awe, with no experience, you would take on a boiler repipe.

drewbert41

scott w. said:

Wow, great house.....looks to be in nice condition. Some one took great care.



You radiators look a lot like mine except for the really ornate one.

My house was built in 1928. Guessing the ornate rad is original to the house.



Your dyed concrete porch with the red squares also match my two porches.



I am in awe, with no experience, you would take on a boiler repipe.

I would be helping someone preferably. Definitely not by myself. The ornate one is the one I have 15 or so of. The other one is the only one like it. It is way bigger. The porch was added in the early 1900s and was wooden at first. The stone steps and porch was probably done around the same time as your house was built. The red squares are individual tiles. Some are cracked. Would be cool to find some.

Dennis1679

As has been pointed out, the near boiler piping is flat wrong for this, or any , steam boiler. The diagram you posted is the minimum that should be done, changing to a drop header would be the best, with 2 takeoffs from the large header for the 2 mains.

dopey27177

The steam piping leaving the boiler looks a bit low.

The piping needs to be 24" or more higher than the boiler water line.

Correct this before you recover the piping.

Jake

I wrote a book on steam see the attachment.

Steam the perfect fluid for heating and some of the problems

Available in Dan's Library, Barnes and Noble, Amazon and Dorrance Publications Pittsburgh Pa www.dorrancebookstore.com






See Attachment Air vents

drewbert41

I am no expert but the pipe runs I have checked with my new level are extremely consistent and pitched towards the boiler. I have not checked the entire system yet. The runs that are throughout the house that have correct pitch I am going to go ahead and wrap. I am tempted to wrap the near boiler stuff too and just cut and retape. I bought a roll of their insulation tape and have not needed it since they already have a tape strip on them. I did not order insulation for any of the fittings yet.

Jellis

Beautiful Home!

mikeg2015

> @ChrisJ said:
> (Quote)
> Pretty much everyone says you should store it full of water.
> Some say to flood it and fill the header as well.
>
> The only time I've ever heard it should be drained is during work or possible freezing conditions.


That’s what I was told and read. I heard to store it just above normal water line to reduce corrosion that occurs right at the water level. Also to boil it off after filling to get as much oxygen out of the water to start.

Probably for that same reason, not a bad idea to flood the header too and throw in some cooler treatment. Although if you have a low range pressure gauge, you need to valve it off as you’ll peg the gauge and throw off calibration (I’ve done this).

drewbert41

drewbert41

Some more pics of the other side with the water feed.

drewbert41

Previous owners skimmed the boiler 2x per week during heating season. This is completely unnecessary with my probe type lwco correct?

JUGHNE

Skimming the boiler is to remove oils from the top of the water.
In your system that would be removing the 2 1/2" plug at the tee outlet, adding a reducing coupling and a nipple of 1 1/4" and then passing only a very small stream of water for hours.
Probably not would be done twice a week all season long.

He may have drained some water out of the bottom of the boiler or return piping twice a week.....not really necessary if system is fairly clean.

The term "blow down" is when the bowl of a LWCO, that uses a float to monitor water levels, is flushed to keep the float working clearly. I don't see one on your boiler.

You do not have to do "blow down" of your LWCO as it is a probe inserted into the boiler water sensing water or lack of. The probe should be cleaned every year.

Your LWCO is a Cycleguard which will shut the boiler done to check the water level.....not the popular design, often changed out to Hydroguard that just functions when needed.

drewbert41

it appears that they were draining it at the return where the garden hose is

draining from the bottom does not seem like skimming to me

JUGHNE

That low point of the wet return would be a good collection of junk, not bad to drain once in a while. It would maybe keep that junk out of the boiler.
But any new water should be boiled right away and will always add some more oxygen to the system.

You have a very long "short nipple" to your Hartford Loop tee.
Can be a cause of water hammer.

drewbert41

Glad to know I have a Hartford loop. I don't think anyone could tell I did from my earlier photos.

mikeg2015

Might as well just make that Hartford loop a Wye fitting While your at it. One company, Anvil, still makes them. A local pipe supply ordered one for me. Surprisingly affordable, not much more than a domestic tee. The just use a 45 to drop to the wet return.

drewbert41

I got a lot of the insulation done this weekend. Need to go back through and do all of the short pieces.

drewbert41

One of my radiators sounds like a washing machine. Really wet steam.

Hap_Hazzard

Make sure the radiator is pitched slightly towards the supply pipe so it can drain.

drewbert41

> @Hap_Hazzard said:
> Make sure the radiator is pitched slightly towards the supply pipe so it can drain.

It is level.

JUGHNE

Try 1/2" shims under the air vent end so water can drain out.
If still a problem then the horizontal run out pipe under the floor could be sagging. You could raise the entire radiator 1/2" on all legs and then add maybe 1/4-1/2 under the vent end.

If this solves the problem you can pretty/hussie the shims up.
Just read about someone here who gets marble type tiles for shims.

nicholas bonham-carter

Quarters are good shims as well, although some very large radiators may need half dollars to spread the load.—NBC

drewbert41

> @JUGHNE said:
> Try 1/2" shims under the air vent end so water can drain out.
> If still a problem then the horizontal run out pipe under the floor could be sagging. You could raise the entire radiator 1/2" on all legs and then add maybe 1/4-1/2 under the vent end.
>
> If this solves the problem you can pretty/hussie the shims up.
> Just read about someone here who gets marble type tiles for shims.

I saw a video on this and they disconnected the radiator and pried it up with a pry bar and shoved furniture cups under them. Is it recommended to disconnect it? This radiator has 13 fins and is pretty tall. How do you suggest lifting it?

mroberts5

I find quarters make noise when the radiator heats up. I had better luck taking 1" dowels and cutting it to the size I need (assuming you have a band saw or something you can cut thin slices with).

As for lifting, I like prying with a 2x4 resting on a 4x4 or stack of books. It won't mar anything. I wouldn't disconnect it. If your moving far enough to need to disconnect you won't be able to reconnect.

drewbert41

> @mroberts5 said:
> I find quarters make noise when the radiator heats up. I had better luck taking 1" dowels and cutting it to the size I need (assuming you have a band saw or something you can cut thin slices with).
>
> As for lifting, I like prying with a 2x4 resting on a 4x4 or stack of books. It won't mar anything. I wouldn't disconnect it. If your moving far enough to need to disconnect you won't be able to reconnect.

Thanks. It has six legs so I may have to go pretty high. Even my largest radiator only has 4 legs.