Need some Big Mouth Crossover Traps.

Double D

Is there a contact name at Barnes and Jones to order from or can you just call over to order? I've dealt with Peter and Andrew in the past. I used up the last 2 Big Mouth Crossovers and I would like to get some more for stock. In case anyone is wondering how well they work, I had 2 mains that took 17min to get steam to the ends from a cold start. After installing the Big Mouths, 3min. 45sec. from a cold start.

Steamhead

Impressive. Is that a Webster system?

EBEBRATT-Ed

Peter @Sailah my respond he hangs out here but I don't think he works for Barnes & Jones any longer. Andrew is still there I think. Google their phone # and call them. You probably can't buy direct but they can tell you where to buy. I think people buy them on Amazon

New England SteamWorks

Len Proc

lproc@barnesandjones.com

Double D

@Steamhead Yes that is a Webster System in a very historical church. They were very close to removing it and changing it over to hot water. That will not be happening now.

This system has a boiler feed tank with a false water line where the return enters the boiler feed tank. The only venting for the system was the original vents on the boiler vent trap. When you turn the boiler on those vents sounded like someone disconnected an air hose from a compressor. A combination of Gorton 2s and Big mouth vents took care of that problem.






@EBEBRATT-Ed They have sold to me direct in the past but I would be happy with where to buy them. I know the Big Mouth air vent is available on Amazon but I can't find it in the crossover version.

Thanks @New England Steamworks I'll give that email a try.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@Double D
That's fine. Nice job. Sounds like you have it under control. Didn't realize you are a contractor

Double D

Thanks @EBEBRATT-Ed Yes a contractor and a much better one thanks to @DanHolohan 's books and this site.

JohnNY

I didn't realize you could still use the Big Mouth as a trap.
Personally, I've had mixed experiences with them and don't like them.

nicholas bonham-carter

Can you elaborate on those experiences please, John?—NBC

ethicalpaul

I have to admit I took mine out of service and put back the Gorton #1 for now (it does OK currently because I still haven't insulated my mains so the steam advances slowly through the main).

My Big Mouth seems to continually puff steam

JohnNY

ethicalpaul said:

My Big Mouth seems to continually puff steam

Exactly. And forget about putting them close to the water line. A late-opening limit switch, or a slow return pipe, or anything that can lift condensate a bit will send water cascading uncontrollably through the Big Mouth. I get that they have their place but the product needs a bit more engineering.

Steamhead

The issue is that the Big Mouth does not have a float to close against water, whereas the Gorton vents do. IIRC some Big Mouths have O-rings on their seats so they won't leak steam when closed, but that doesn't solve the issue of water leakage. If B&J somehow added a float to the Big Mouth that did not restrict the air flow, they'd have a winner.

But in the application shown in @Double D 's pics, they're perfect.

JohnNY

@Steamhead
Exactly right of course.
I realize full well that this video is showing effect and not cause of a systemic problem not specifically related to the Big Mouth product but having dealt with this situation in a building one morning was enough for me. I can’t post video evidently but this was bad:

Jamie Hall

At the risk of the obvious -- any normal steam radiator trap will work as a crossover trap -- and it's likely that that's what was there in the first place. They're piped above the steam main -- up with a short nipple, 90 to horizontal with a short nipple to the trap inlet, then the outlet from the trap a short nipple straight down to the dry return. Condensate in the steam main is taken by a drip to the wet return, of it there isn't a wet return it can be handled by a loop going down to the floor and back up to the dry return -- but watch your pressures on that set up to be sure you don't blow the loop.