Contractor working on steam boiler sudden water overflow?

catwithasthma

Forgive me as I've never had to deal with these specifics and am not sure of details here. Today I had a contractor doing something simple on a system that's been working great, replacing a small circulating pump that diverts water and keeps a basement floor heated, after he replaced it (and seemed to do a great neat job) he went back to the steam boiler to switch it on and test everything, and could not get water to the pump it kept grinding and running dry.

He manually fed a TON of water into the boiler. Suddenly water was dripping out of the back part of the boiler down onto the tubes and even extinguished the pilot light. He then declared that the boiler tank was cracked somewhere and needs to be replaced entirely. I had him go through this with me and after returning water levels to normal in the sight glass everything was working fine. He declared the crack must be above that water level and it would only become apparent that there is a leak if the water level was too high but it needed to entirely replaced because it was dangerous now.

Does this sound accurate to someone please? Is the "tank" of a steam boiler a sealed container? Could this leak have been caused by overfilling it with water and at a seal or something?

Intplm.

What was the pump used for?? Is it used to heat radiators with condensate from the steam boiler?
Was it a direct replacement ?
Is it installed well below the water line? Or is it above the steam boilers water line ?

Jamie Hall

I would not describe a boiler as having a tank. Or being a tank. That said, it is possible that there is a leak in the boiler and he found it by overfilling it -- that is one of the ways of finding a leak.

On the other hand, if they described it as a tank... and replaced a pump and couldn't get it to run with normal water in the boiler... and overfilled the boiler to get it to run... I would have some doubt as to whether they knew what they were doing. They may well have ruined your new pump in the process.

Therefore... I would suggest finding a steam heat person (try find a contractor up top there) who does know what they are doing.

Now as to the possible leak. The best way to figure out if you have one is simply to watch and keep track of how much water you need to add. In most cases, adding anything much over a gallon a week -- and some would say much less -- suggests a problem. And again, if you are in doubt, that reliable steam heat person. Not the chap who described it as a tank and overfilled it...

catwithasthma

Thanks for your replies. I apologize I may be representing this person poorly its my recall of the terms possibly, and not his (I think he called the boiler "block" cracked not a tank).

The setup with the circulating pump is too difficult to explain here in full detail, the only thing to note is that everything has been working perfectly heating a 4 floor 150 year old brownstone just fine. This year the Taco circulating pump has worked but become very noisy, its at least 6 years old, and I wanted to be pre emptive replacing it. It takes water from a pipe coming out of the side of the boiler that is heated and circulates in the basement to copper fan radiators.

I now think doing some research he was trying to force the system into lots of water and pressure to send it to the pump. But at a certain point using manual fill water came out of somewhere high in the boiler unit, enough to drench the floor. That's when he insisted the entire thing needed replacing.

My question is: could this leak be examined further and possibly repaired instead of replacing the entire boiler?

And also: could the brand new circulating pump maybe have been not able to pull water just due to an air bubble and the system needs to be bled somewhere?

Thanks again for your help.

EBEBRATT-Ed

I believe he had trouble bleeding the hot water system and filled the boiler above normal to get the hot water system to work.

I would get a second opinion but it seems likely to me that the contractor is correct in his assessment that the boiler has a leak above the water line. This would not be caused by over filling the boiler.

Intplm.

The water showing up from the repair? The leak may have been there for a long time and not discovered until this unrelated work was done.
It is possible that the replaced circulator could not do its job because of the leak/air in the lines. ( as you alluded too.) So the new circulator would not have helped.
Sometimes it is hard to tell until corrective repairs are done only to find that the cause was a hidden symptom discovered by replacing with a new circulator.
As to replacing the boiler? Can't tell from here. A thorough leak check should be done if it hasn't been done already.
As @Jamie Hall has mentioned. Keep an eye on it. Talk with the service company about options.
Depending on how big the leak is, and where it is. You can temporarily seal the boiler with chemicals to buy time if applicable. Talk with your service tech.

catwithasthma

This helps a lot. One thing, I was with him the entire time, and at no point did he do anything that seemed like bleeding. Didn't touch the valves in the baseboard pipes. At one point he brought some hoses from his car to try something but said it wasn't worth the bother because entire boiler needed replacing. Apart from actions he could've taken away from the boiler at various valves, what would a bleeding procedure at the boiler be like?

Thanks for this its very helpful.

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

I believe he had trouble bleeding the hot water system and filled the boiler above normal to get the hot water system to work.

I would get a second opinion but it seems likely to me that the contractor is correct in his assessment that the boiler has a leak above the water line. This would not be caused by over filling the boiler.

Ironman

"From his car"??
He doesn't have a service truck? He doesn't sound much like the real deal.

catwithasthma

Can anyone say please, if this boiler has a crack above the waterline, which makes sense because I hear the autofeeder daily, but it has been perfectly operational all winter and ive never seen any trace of steam or water previous to this only until the manual fill, how dangerous is it to operate currently?

nicholas bonham-carter

The real danger would be a situation where the flame was extinguished by the leak, and the safeties would not interrupt the flow of gas. Maybe your service tech can establish some sort of test to make sure they are working in that case. Then you can limp along until spring.
If you need a sudden replacement, the DO NOT just replace the boiler with the same size as you have, but instead measure all the radiators for their heat values, (EDR), and size the boiler from that. The new boiler may also need to be repiped according to the manufacturer’s explicit instructions, and not just slid in to possibly incorrect existing piping. New boilers, with their increased thermal efficiency are much less forgiving of bad installation. Post some pictures of the present piping for more observations.—NBC

pecmsg

catwithasthma said:

Can anyone say please, if this boiler has a crack above the waterline, which makes sense because I hear the autofeeder daily, but it has been perfectly operational all winter and ive never seen any trace of steam or water previous to this only until the manual fill, how dangerous is it to operate currently?

Without actually being there NO.

Try Here:
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/
get a second opinion!

Grallert

It might also be helpful for everyone if you could provide pictures of the work done, the boiler, and the piping near and around the boiler. If you are hearing the water feeder daily there is an issue. impossible to tell what kind of an issue from here.

Ironman

A leak above the water line can be unnoticeable because the steam goes out of the flue and up the chimney.

nicholas bonham-carter

The definitive test for a leak is to overfill the boiler, (turned off, and just warm), up into the header, and look for water on the floor, and I would do it again just to confirm or deny what you have been told.
Drain it back down before turning it back on.—NBC

Fred

@catwithasthma , as much as you may not want to hear it, if water poured on the floor when he overfilled the boiler, It most likely has a hole rusted through somewhere above the water line. The only other place it should have leaked, by over filling would be a main vents and/or radiator vents, but that would be really over filled.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@catwithasthma

Chances are that you have a leak above the water line. The "lost water" is going up the chimney as steam.

Chances are you can make it through the heating season safely...........but I can't see your boiler from here so get a second opinion from a qualified steam technician as @pecmsg mentioned.

Much better to do the replacement in the summer, no rush, save up some dough, size things correctly and find the right contractor

catwithasthma

Thanks for everyone's replies, and for bearing with my naivete about these systems as I try to figure this out. Learned a lot here and you were all so helpful and quick to respond. Going to get a second opinion.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Good luck. Let us know how it turns out