Been a while... Not much steam related until this week...

Robbie

It has been around ten years since I installed the new boiler, etc, and other than a few minor issues, most has gone reasonably according to plan. Until this week(You know- The horrible "Polar Vortex!" aka " The Alberta Clipper" moved in). Anyway, here's the issue...

Two nights ago, just before bed, I realized the heater was OFF... SO I went down and looked- at just the right time: The radiator vents were just starting to spout, and the system was FULL of water(Both floors worth) ! Pressure in the system was at 25psi. (I keep it at 0.5-1.5 psi) So I shut everything down, and drained the system entirely... I shut down the automatic watering device, and then filled the boiler a little more than half way, and the burner switched back on. The heat came back up, and I went to bed, for a nice three hours or less before I had to be up for work. I decided to leave the automatic water feeder off for the moment, until I could figure out the next step.

Just before I left for work, I checked, and all appeared well. Water was at a good level, etc. Off to work, came home early, and checked over the system: water was needed again. Brought it up, and kept an eye on it till I went to bed.

Went downstairs this morning, and it was below 65 on the main floor. A quick check showed water level was low, indicator light was on, and burner off. Filled the boiler about halfway, off to work, to return, and it was still above low water light area, but lower than I'd set it, pressure was about 5psi.

I grabbed the manuals (now having a moment to research), and found the one for the water feeder. I went down and serviced its screen, in case something had blocked the valve open (and flushed it as well) then gave it a fill test. It is filling properly, but still seems to be losing water: NO water around boiler(except from my draining it the other night). Relief valve OK, pressure going up and down with burner operation.

I have been monitoring it for the past hour: it keeps losing water(has used an indicated 1 gal), and I am trying to figure out where- none of the radiators are showing leakage, pipes are dry, etc. One possible place is a large upstairs radiator which was making a lot of noise- but fully opening the valve quieted it right away. (I think it still was filled with water from the other night!)

ANY ideas what may be causing unknown water loss? I am reviewing Dan Holohan's "Lost Art of Steam Heating" book, and trying to think through the system... I am wondering it it might be the return vent. Or is it possible the cold air is simply water thiefing it?

Time to go check the boiler...

Scott

Jamie Hall

First off -- check the maximum pressure. You mention that it got up to 5 psi -- the boiler should have shut off at 1.5. The pigtail may well be full of gunk after the overfill incident.

Automatic feeders have been known to stick open; more often it is the low water cutoff which is misbehaving -- so that should be checked.

However, that doesn't account for the water loss. You have a leak. If it is a leak above the water line in the boiler -- not that uncommon -- you won't see any evidence of it in the building. Go outside when the boiler is running and look at the stack -- in this cold weather a wispy to moderate plume of steam is not uncommon -- but a nice billowing plume is very likely a leak. Since you did have an overfill and, I presume (you don't say) didn't see water on the floor, that is a little puzzling I admit. Are there any wet return lines buried under the floor anywhere?

Robbie

Hi Jamie- Thanks for the reply: This system was installed originally after the house was built(1883), and it had a forced hot air system of some sort when new: When I bought it, I put in a new boiler, and several various radiators I was able to pick up, as the originals(save one) had apparently all been scrapped, and the old boiler was broken across all the sections. The lines are all above ground, and quite easy to see, and put hands on.(but hot... lol...)

When the boiler is running next, I will look at the chimney- I have very good vantage point from my third floor!

When I checked it a few minutes ago, AFTER I had fully opened the one radiator valve here in my office(it was mostly shut at some point, I guess in an attempt to reduce output) it was actually over 3/4 of the way up the sight glass- after having been a good bit lower last time. I think that radiator may have been trapping some of the water- steam under pressure would get by, and then the condensate and water were trapped- it was making all the right noises. I opened the valve fully, and it drained back to the boiler. I drained the boiler back 20 minutes ago, and it was about 1/4" above where I drained it when I just checked it again.

As to steam out the chimney, yes, there is some, but, given the temperature out, etc. it does not seem extreme. There is condensation on the underside of the chimney cap, but that is to be expected.

Oh- pressure when last checked, was on the pin where it usually is. I wonder if this one radiator was acting as a defacto accumulator like a hydraulic system has...

I am checking every half hour to 45 minutes.

Scott

Fred

While you are monitoring the boiler, take the time to replace the Pressure Relief Valve on your boiler. You say in your original post that your boiler was at 25 PSI. The Pressure Relief Valve should have tripped at 15 PSI. Also, clearly something is wrong with your Pressuretrol or the pigtail is clogged.
In any case, it is hard for me to believe there is a leak above the boiler water line and the pressure still rose that high. I have to believe either the gauge is faulty, or there is a leak in a wet return or you have other radiators that are closed off and holding water or you do have a buried wet return that you may not be aware of.

Robbie

The pressure relief valve is marked 30 psi... (corrected) Water level has been holding relatively steady (+- 1/4") since 3pm (it is almost 7 now), and pressure (below 1) since I fully opened this radiator. I feel it was a glitch that overfilled the system- and the trapped water in the one radiator has been the problem. Once I relieved it, (knock wood) things seem to have stabilized.

EBEBRATT-Ed

If you truly have a 30 psi relief valve ............it is positively the wrong valve and needs replacement immediately.

this is a steam system correct??

Robbie

Hi- it is a single pipe steam system, and that is the relief valve which came with the boiler... BUT- looking at the manual for the boiler, it lists the pressure relief as a 15psig unit. I will have to do some more research on this now! I wonder if they sent me the wrong one installed?

Fred

A steam boiler must have a 15 PSI relief valve on it. 30 PSI is for hot water systems. That valve must be replaced. You don't need to do any more research.

ratio

Fred said:

A steam boiler must have a 15 PSI relief valve on it. 30 PSI is for hot water systems. That valve must be replaced. You don't need to do any more research.

Really. This is a real safety issue.

Would've caught your problem a lot earlier as well, although it might have been messy.

Robbie

Oh, it was messy enough...

Anyway, temp/water level & pressure have been holding steady (knock wood) I think the water feeder got stuck open somehow, and that is what filled the system. I believe the one partially closed radiator trapped its load of water, and when the system drained, was allowing steam in, but not much water out, and that is why things were wonky. Once I opened it fully, and that water was allowed to release, things balanced and went back to normal. I Hope.

I'll be picking up a 15PSI relief this week. Too cold to shut down the boiler to cold today!