Steam boiler replacement in order to save system.

johnnygreenham

Possibly..... but I will say this is a guy I approached, through a friend I have in town who works in the construction industry. This steam guy is kind of going out of his way to work all this out for us as we are not the ideal situation where he could drive over and see it for himself. I'm sure we are chump change to him in terms of products he can sell us. The reality may be that running steam in this house will always require a 3.5 GPH boiler which probably means my wife and I would be eating baked beans for the winter.

Steamhead

@johnnygreenham , you need someone who will actually come to the site to look at it. It can't be done by remote control. @JohnNY and @Danny Scully said they'd come up there in earlier posts...............

johnnygreenham

OK. I'll reach out. Thanks

KC_Jones

With an EDR of 402, no way you are even close to a commercial boiler. He might be a nice guy, but a majority of what you typed is incorrect information from him.

johnnygreenham

I do hear what you are saying, that's why I'm reaching out again as I feel something is off in the calculation. I definitely was getting a little confused due to him speaking out loud with numbers as he was crunching his calculations, so there is a good chance I have some of the terminology/implementation wrong. The 'coil' at 50,000 BTU's may have been the coil for a water line in the attic he talked about putting in which would be part of a duct work system to heat, reuse and move air around the building. The tall ceilings were in his calculation and this was a way to try and save some of the hot air already made. My understand was that, this would only be part of the system if we went hydronic. Thats why i scribbled down 50,000 BTU's for coil meaning for domestic water in the boiler itself. He was talking sq/ft of steam and numbers that I wasn't recognizing so I'd hate to throw anyone under the bus because I could not follow the conversation quick enough. Either way the take away was that we would be in the commercial boiler range and he strongly recommended go hydronic due to unit cost and running cost. That I'm positive on. I'd still like to stress that this guy has gone out of his way to help us, I just want to make sure he's right with the info I've given him.

johnnygreenham

If I could get down to knowing confidently what correct size boiler will work in this system with a domestic hot water coil that can supply enough hot water for the basement tube radiator, domestic hot water tank and roughly what the running costs are of that system in oil then I'd be in a position to finally make the call. But that is the unicorn of an answer right now..........

Jamie Hall

You have a problem, @johnnygreenham , good buddy -- you've got hooked by a super nice steam guy who doesn't know what he's talking about. May I most humbly suggest you talk to @JohnNY (John Cataneo) instead?

Your system is about a third the size of the one Cedric powers. Your pipe sizes are ample. You don't need to add in the BTU for the hot water system in the basement; you do need to insulate the steam pipes to get rid of that BTU load. You need a nice boiler with an EDR rating of around 400 square feet, and a competent chap to install it. You'll burn perhaps 3/4 of a gallon per hour on oil to fire it, which is what it would take for hot water as well.

Please do yourself a favour and find a competent steam person -- like @JohnNY (I think, but I'm not sure, that @EzzyT or @Dave0176 work in New York, too) -- and get the system properly done.

johnnygreenham

@Jamie Hall Thanks Jamie for the advice. I sent @JohnNY an email this morning but I understand we are far away so for most people thats a deal killer. I get it but I'll await for a response/guidance.

@Steamhead @KC_Jones Appreciate the posts.

BobC

Boilers are sized by the system EDR, manufacturers state the EDR rating of their boilers so installers can select the best fit. The manufacturers edr rating includes a hidden 33% pickup factor to cover piping and other losses.

This means a boiler rated at 400 EDR has a hidden ability to handle 133 sq ft of piping and other losses - in addition to the 400 EDR rating . All that piping in the basement should have 1" rigid fiberglass insulation on it so it's EDR will be considerably less.

You can use that "hidden" EDR to help support the hot water loop because good insulation will cut the pipe losses drastically. Get another quote because I think he may be quoting you a much larger system than you need. In any case wait for the pro's to weigh in on this, I'm sure they will have something to say.

Bob

johnnygreenham

Thank you for all the help you have all given us on this project. We have been busy preparing.

I finally removed the old boiler after a few nights of hard work.





I should have the last quotes coming in for the megasteam MST396 in the next day or two and was hoping to order the boiler Friday or Monday but I just hit a dump right before we order.

The question relates to whether or not we need the model WITH the tankless coil or not. I was always thinking we would need it but I'm now thinking not. ???
We will in effect be running two hot water zones from the boiler and it seems crazy to me to run it through a small heat exchanger (tankless coil) when we have already heated the large volume of water in the boiler itself.

Our zoning will be this:

Zone 1 - will be to the basement fin tube radiator which will be below the boiler water line. (pressure tank maybe required to bleed?)

Zone 2 - Will be a small loop to the indirect water heater.

There will need to be some controls/valving involved to allow only the hot water heater to be supplied in summer etc but could someone chime in and explain why I would have to get a tankless coil for what I'm trying to achieve or I am understanding this correctly? Is it bad practice to pipe the boiler water around the basement into the radiator and back or maybe inefficient?

I have attached a diagram that I added to from this site? Please let me know what you see wrong.

The 1. and 2. symbols on the diagram was my question to where on a boiler if you don't have a tankless coil, do you pipe off from and how many ports/tappings do you usually get?

Thank you for any help.

JUGHNE

Looking at your dry returns....each should drop independently down to the wet return at the boiler.
As you have them now with a single air vent, the shorter/quicker steam main will close the air vent and the longer/slower main will not get the air vented.
Each should have its own air venting system and be separate returns isolated by the trap water in the wet return.
Air vents should be after the last steam take off.

AMservices

This is a 2 pipe system. All the dry returns tie together above the water line and vent through a single LARGE vent.
You balance the steam entering the radiators with the supply valves or orifices, in the attempt to have all the steam condensing in the radiator and out of the dry return.
If steam makes it's way to the return on the radiator, a steam trap should be in place to prevent it from entering the dry return.
What should change about the air vent is its location and its size.
It would be better positioned on the horizontal pipe, 10 or more inches away from the 90° fitting that points down.
That 1 vent needs to vent all the air from the system, so make it a big 1 or 2 or 3.

Jamie Hall

I'm with @AMservices on this one. The dry returns in a two pipe system can be -- and often are -- hooked together, above the water line, at the boiler. They should have a single vent or vent cluster at that location -- and nowhere else. Indeed, in most if not all, vapour systems, they have to be for the things to work properly.

The confusion comes in when one is looking at a pipe which is actually a continuation of a steam main back to the boiler. This is often done for parallel flow, single pipe systems, as a convenient way to get condensate back to the boiler without floor level wet returns. Common enough in single pipe systems. In those, as @JUGHNE says, they do need to be separately vented and separately dropped. But... they are not dry returns. They are extensions of a steam main, and need to be treated as such. The individual vent or vents on each one can be located anywhere handy after the last radiator takeoff.

JUGHNE

So are the ends of the mains loop dripped or have an F&T trap?

johnnygreenham

Good to know about the main vent. Adding another main vent on the horizontal should not be that difficult. Thanks for the tip.

The ends of the main loops in this system just have thermostatic traps only. No F&T trap. I noticed this and wondered if I could even fit one in due to the limited height different and space between the mains and the return. I'm assuming this was the initial installation back in the 30's but can't be sure.
I was also throwing caution to the wind and assuming that the system used to function correctly so this probably isn't an issue I would need to improve right away but I'm sure someone can educate me on that.

P.S I've not removed the trap cover yet so can not confirm if it even has a cartridge inside. All the rest of the traps on the radiators were empty.




I know there are probably many ways to achieve the same end goal, with some paths more successful than others......
Did my above diagram of the water zone loops make any sense. I'm just trying to figure out if I should get a tankless coil in the boiler for hot water zoning or if it's now more efficient and a better practice to use the boilers hot water to feed the indirect heater and single basement radiator by pumps/valves etc with no in-boiler tankless coil needed? This is my biggest question mark right now stopping me ordering the boiler.

Thanks for any advice
Johnny

AMservices

Megasteam installation manual Page 29 shows how Burnham has indirect tank piped without tankless coil.

It dosen't show the bypass loop, but that's the better way to pipe it so you can control the temperature of the water going through the pump and hot water loops.

I installed a megasteam with another plumber and he suggested we put the pump on the return line back to the boiler so the pump dosen't get hit with steam. Works good, never had a problem. If I could go back, I would have done somethings differently, like make the steam header larger.

In regards to steam traps and crossover traps.
You definitely want to replace the cartridges in the crossover traps. If you dont mind the trial and error process to throttle the steam entering the radiators, orifice plates or new supply valves will help keeping steam out of the returns. So you can avoid replacing traps on radiators.
I would install new traps for extra protection in the event the pressure gets a little high or theres a very long heat cycle.

JUGHNE

I stand corrected on the venting piping, thinking of single pipe EOM.
Looking at the top picture of EOM trap, it seems the main would collect water as the trap looks to be concentric to the main steam pipe. So air/steam would have to push thru some water perhaps with hammering to get thru the trap.
Then when the element cools enough to open, some pressure is needed to lift the condensate uphill to the return.
This looks to be Dead Man original...….one wonders how well it worked.....??
Is this in a crawl space?

johnnygreenham

@JUGHNE. They are both in the unfinished dirt floor section of the basement but I have about 5-8ft worth of height to work in at both ends of the mains. I have to think I will need to re-work those traps but until we make steam I think I will leave it and see what results we get. If nothing, just out of interest.

@AMservices Thanks for the info and the photos. Those installs are very nice. I will do my best to try and match the quality of the installs. Are blank orifice plates available to but or is it something you just have to make?

Hot water zones - So I think I will save the money and not get the coil in boiler. I can always add a stand alone heat exchanger if for some reason I feel like I would need one. Maybe the large radiator and length of piping will suck up too much heat out of the water in the boiler if its trying to make steam at the same time but I'm sure I can run some controls to priorities if this happens to be the issue. There are always option right!

Appreciate all the responses as always.

JUGHNE

I have gotten blank orifice plates thru Tunstall.
I have them pre drilled to 1/8", serves as pilot hole for drilling them to size as needed. I hold them in a union with a nipple for a handle as I drill.
Had a few not drilled as sometimes 1/8 is too large.

Jamie Hall

Those are crossover traps in your picture. A slightly unusual way to pipe them, but that's wat they are. Just make sure that they are working. Then put all your main venting at the boiler, where the dry returns come together before they drop to the wet return.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and bet that this was once a vapour system. It's beginning to look like that. Due to the slightly unusual piping configuration of your crossovers, you will need to set the cutin on the vapourstat to around 3 ounces per square inch (that's ounces!) so on most vapourstats you would want the cutout (main scale) at around 8 ounces and the differential around 5; if you have a Hoffman Differential Loop on there (you don't say), it should be 7 and 4, respectively.

johnnygreenham

@Jamie Hall , @JUGHNE : Oh boy, I started to read the lost art of steam again and I'm feeling a little shaky on what I'm understanding.
I think you are correct Jamie about this once being a vapor system but at some point the original boiler was replaced with the oil boiler I just removed. That probably explains why the basement radiator set up below the water line wouldn't have worked well with that last boiler and thermostat valve. If I'm understanding correctly, there must have been some extra piping/components involved like a Hoffman Differential loop which were removed possibly when the last boiler was installed.
In a nut shell, you are saying that when this system was first installed, it probably was a slightly different operating system than what we have now? It seems like we can't still be dealing with a vapor system as it doesn't have any of the fundamental components required. I guess it doesn't really have the components (F&T) for a regular two pipe system either?

What we still have in system
1)What we have left is two Steam mains, each having a crossover thermostatic trap at the end.
2)Two pipe radiators with Thermostatic traps on return dry legs but they were all empty (no cartridges)
3)A third main but this dips under the water line of the previous boiler so the entire piping/radiator is wet apart from the pipe that connected to the header.
4) One main vent on dry return located on the vertical above water line.

What we don't have in system
No F&T anyware
No Hoffman Differential loop
No Boiler
No Hartford Loop

I was literally about to order the boiler when I read your post so I'm going to hang off ordering for another day or two until I make sure I understand what needs to be done or what I have to do to my piping to make it function properly with a new boiler and changing what was the 3rd main to water (to basement radiator).

I think I need to post more drawing and photos/video so maybe you guys can confirm what I need to add to get this new boiler working correctly. as it stands I don't think it will operate correctly if I just installed a boiler. Am I wrong?

Update: Here are three short videos of our entire system with from below except the radiators above the floor.

First: Main loop #1 Larger


second: Main loop #2 Smaller


Third: Was third main with radiator running from condensate, but if possible will turn into separate hot water loop

johnnygreenham

I'm reading as much about Vapor systems as possible. I would be very inclined to just return the system as was initial installed back when there was the original coal boiler but the main issue I see is that we no longer have the Hoffman Differential loop and I'm sure no one makes or sells that main component anymore.

What do you believe is my best option with what we have to work with here?

AMservices

Johnny,
What Jamie and jughne said dosen't change the boiler.
What Jamie is recommending is that you get a vapor stat pressure control. Its identical to the pressuretrol that comes with the boiler. The difference is the scale is in ounces not pounds of pressure.
You dont need differential loops or any contraptions associated with the dead men's vapor systems.
What defines a vapor steam system, is the ability to heat all of the radiators with less then 16 oz of pressure.
The Hartford loop is just the configuration of piping the return condensate back to the boiler. Chapter 5 LAOSH.
You don't need F & T traps.
You do need the crossover traps working.
You do need a way to prevent steam from entering the dry return.

Having working steam traps on the radiators is a safety to ensure that steam doesn't get into the returns.

I would recommend repairing or replacing the radiators supply valve Because a good working valve can be used to control the flow of steam entering the radiator. And at the same time, you're fixing any leaks making your system tighter.

Orifice plates make more sense in a apartment complex where the building doesn't want tenants messing with the heat distribution.

So... You have a boiler selected that you know is large enough to fill the system.
You know that you need to keep steam from getting into the dry return.
All you need now to fill the system with vapor steam, is good air venting.

" If air can't get out, steam can't get in"

So if you can vent the air faster then the boiler can push the air out, you will fill the entire system with less than 4 oz of pressure.
The only way a steam boiler can build pressure is if it can fill it faster than its venting. That includes Restricting it to much on the supply side.

You know you need more venting.

Looking over that video of the 3rd main, It is pipe very strange.
The only way I see that working is if this intended to be gravity loop. Or it was a way to add water volume to the boiler.
I dont understand why theres 3 pipes.
Are there any other main lines that are dripped into The Wet return?

johnnygreenham

@AMservices: thank you for that long detailed post, appreciate the response.

Q:"Are there any other main lines that are dripped into The Wet return?"

A: No. No other pipes exist in the building. Just what's in the videos. The fin tube radiator return was the only pipe that returned into the wet return from the side.

@AMservices "You don't need differential loops or any contraptions associated with the dead men's vapor systems."

A: Well that's good to know. Just haven't got my head around why it would be ok to leave it out of the system and not have to replace it with something else. I read this from Dans book and this is why I thought I would need to add more contraptions unless the following in not regarding a vapor system or these are things I would be installing on a new boiler regardless?

Page 392 (revised version) "If you see a differential loop on a boiler-replacement job, best thing you can do is leave it alone. If you remove it, you'll probably have to install a boiler-feed or condensate pump, as well as float & thermostatic traps at the ends of the mains. You may even have to re-pipe most of the returns so they run downhill to the condensate receiver".


I will read more and see if I fully understand why I can leave it out. Really appreciate people patients, this steam thing is addictive and also frustrating.

Thanks
J

AMservices

Dont take that quote about the differential loop as a blanket statement. No two steam systems are exactly the same.

To understand what devices like differential loops and boiler return traps do, you have to understand how condensate returns to the boiler.

In the boiler, when water starts exploding into steam, this is the highest point of pressure.
Where all the problems begin.
As pressure starts to build above the water line, the water will be pushed down and out through the return.

For every pound of pressure, you will raise water 28" in A vertical column.

That vertical column is the last drop the retuning condensate makes before falling into a wet return.

So how does water get the pressure needed to return to the boiler?

2 ways.
First, gravity and the weigh of the water.
Second, (this is the magic trick the differential loop uses) Equal Pressure.

To simplify a differential loops purpose, what it does is equalize the pressure between the supply and return. With equal pressure on both sides of the water, it drains easily back to the boiler.

you dont need a differential loop is because your new boiler will be piped with a equalizer line.
This is the pipe a the end of the supply header that connects to the return, where the Hartford loop ties in the main return.

What you need to make sure of is that you have at least 30" between the top of the boilers water line and the bottom of the dry return main.
Keep the pressure low with good venting, good balance and a good vapor stat.
https://www.supplyhouse.com/Honeywell-L408J1009-Vaporstat-Controller-Steam-0-to-16-oz-in2

If the pressure gets to high, water will back all the way up into the return main.

johnnygreenham

@AMservices
"you don't need a differential loop is because your new boiler will be piped with a equalizer line."

That was the bit of information I was looking for and could not understand why removing a piece of safety would be ok without having some sort of replacement. I've read a fare bit about the Hartford Loop but no where did I read that the equalizer pipe leading from the header to the loop could do the differential loops job so to speak. Much appreciated. Ordering boiler today. It's exciting and frustrating all at the same time when learning but not always grasping concepts straight away. Thanks again for the education.

AMservices

Page 105 LAOSH,
Equalizer sizing

johnnygreenham

@AMservices Got it, nothing like a bit of light reading over breakfast! Thanks

johnnygreenham

UPDATE:

I thought it about time I'd post the progress and updates of where I got, with resurrecting this system after all the help I received from members in the forum.
I've given it my best shot, thats all I can say so please be gentle on me if you see something stupid.
Here are some photos, and this is what we are seeing. Maybe someone can shed some light on how to proceed.
I'm working with a good friend who knows a little about steam but is mostly doing the hot water side and we are working together to set up the new boiler.
We fired up the system last week for the first time in three decades.
The boiler ran fine and made steam after we set a few things up.
We followed the steam along the main line pipes with a thermal imaging camera. It was slow. At this point I'd say 2/3rds of the main lines were NOT lagged. We had to add about 4 Gal of water after it cut out on low water twice. We put this down to the old pipes needing to be primed with moisture after being dry for 30 years.
All radiators got hot at the top but all were cool/cold at the bottom. It looks about 30-45 minutes to get to that stage.
We never made any pressure (all thermostatic valves were open I'm sure)
We could not set up the burner pump pressure because my friend/co-installer hadn't brought the correct size adapter/line for the pump. We also saw that the flame was not quite long enough and the Nozzle that was shipped with the boiler was incorrect. We have a 0.75 installed but it should have been a 1.05 nozzle
When we turned the system off. All the condensate came back and the level of the water went higher than the sight glass. Who knows how high but I'm sure there was no more air left in the boiler.
We made some modifications to the old steam fin radiator in the basement and piped it for hot water which is almost finished. We are also close to finishing the piping to the indirect water heater. We have not fired it up since the initial time as life has gotten very busy again this week but the mains lines have been now been lagged. That hopefully was massively contributing to the boiler appearing to be undersized.
The water level is my big concern. I'm hoping that the new Water loop radiator will act like a condensate tank and expand enough to not have to add water to the boiler to make steam?
The boiler does shut down every 15 minutes for 1-2 minutes I believe to allow for condensate to return.
What are everyones thoughts on the boiler overfilling when shutting down?
Sorry for the long winded story.
Does anyone have anymore recommendations on how we can get this working correctly. Thanks everyone!

Jamie Hall

Nice piping job on the boiler, there!

I'm not surprised that the radiators didn't get hot all the way down on a 20 or 30 minute run -- it may take longer than that. Insulation on the steam mains will help with that.

If you haven't replaced the trap elements in the radiator traps, you either need to do that -- or install orifice plates in the inlet valves to make sure you tenants don't do strange things to the valves and mess things up. I'd probably just go ahead and replace the trap elements.

Makes sure that those crossover traps have elements as well, and that they are working. If they are failed closed, the system will work poorly. Then, make sure there is enough main venting on the combined returns (NOT on the steam main). You may well need two or three Gorton #2s there.

A word about the Hoffman Differential Loop -- and the various other patented whiz-bangs which were used on vapour systems -- and boiler pressure The idea -- as @AMservices said -- was to ensure that the condensate could get back to the boiler and not get hung up in the dry returns. They did this in various ways, but the principle in all of them was that if the differential pressure got to high, they allowed boiler pressure to get into the dry returns, thus equalizing the pressure between the dry returns and the boiler, allowing the condensate to return by gravity. They were needed because there was no way to quickly shut down an overenthusiastic coal boiler, unlike a modern gas or oil boiler. They aren't really needed on a system with a gas or oil boiler, provided the boiler is equipped with a vapourstat which will keep the pressure where it belongs -- and where it belongs is less than 7 ounces per square inch. That's simply not optional.

Which leads me to ask: what is the cutoff pressure you are running? Because if it greater than 7 ounces, water is backing up into the dry returns and that may account for some -- or all -- of your cutting out on low water and having an overfilled condition when you turn the boiler off.

johnnygreenham

@Jamie Hall Thanks for the reply Jamie.
I did put new replacements in all of the individual thermostatic traps (which were all empty) at every radiator and also the two crossover traps.

I installed a vaporstat and a pressuretrol. The vaporstat I set to cut-in at 2 and cut-out at 4 just to see what would happen on our first try but it just ran off the thermostat. So I just left it at cut-in 4oz and cut-out 7oz.
Pressturetrol is set at 1psi cut-out and is a backup. I put a shutoff on the vaporstat to be able to lock in OZ pressure there and then ramp up to 8 psi if need be for blowdown.

My fear is that we have such long horizontal mains and condensate lines, that it takes much much longer for the condensate to actually return to the boiler than it would do if they were vertical lines of the same length. What do you think about that theory?

Am I correct in thinking that the large water radiators loop that we will be adding into the boiler will have water in it that will expand 1.7 times and possible make up for the boilers small volume?

johnnygreenham

I forgot to add, I just installed one Big mouth vent at the very end of the horizontal dry return before it turns vertical and down to where it becomes a wet line.

Jamie Hall

Condensate in long horizontal runs will take a while to get home. Provided they are pitched reasonably, it won't be that bad. Keep in mind that the condensate volume, though, is remarkably small: a 100,000 BTUh boiler, running at full song, will only produce around 1 quart of condensate per minute, so your 4 gallons of water added would mean you got no condensate coming back for 15 or so minutes -- which is unlikely, even with long dry return runs.

It is quite possible, though, that it may have taken that much condensate just to fill the wet returns, if you have them, after sitting off for so long. A 2 inch pipe, for instance, holds a quart of water for every foot of pipe -- it wouldn't take that much dry pipe to require 4 gallons! Note that if you filled the boiler just to the Hartford loop, you didn't fill any of the wet returns.

So... I would ask if the problem has kept happening? There is another possibility, though: is the system really shutting off on low water? There is one type of low water cutoff -- the Cycleguard -- which turns off on its own from time to time to let any foaming stop, and can give the illusion that it's a low water problem. Check the sight glass -- which doesn't lie.

johnnygreenham

@Jamie Hall Thanks Jamie. Some good info there. It definitely shut off on low water, we played very close attention to the sight glass and where the LWC probe it situated. One issue maybe how we set up the water feed rate. Maybe we did something wrong there. When the water level trips on low water, we set the dip switches in the water feeder to feed 2 gal. That then brings it up from the low water cutoff probe to the exact level of the boiler water line again.........but.........that doesn't take into account the water already in the system coming back as condensate. I remember when we shut the boiler off for the day, the water level was about 1/2 Gal down on the site glass after it had automatically fed twice at the 2 Gal rate. Once it had been down for 15 minutes or so the water level was way above the sight glass. Maybe we just set it up so it just added that extra 2 Gal when it only needed half an extra gallon. Switching it to 1 Gal would maybe give us that perfect amount?
I guess we just need to fire it up again when my friend has time to come over and finish the copper loops and burner setup. I'm glad my steam part of the project is complete. That was a lot of hand threading and head scratching. Other than the few issues we had, i was happy to see the old system generate some heat.

I'll report back when I have more information to report. Thanks everyone for all the help!

Jamie Hall

On the water feeder. Not only would I set it up to feed only 1 gallon, but I would set it up for a time delay before feeding (some can go up to 10 minutes) if you haven't. Then see what happens...

Intplm.

I never get tired of before and after pictures. This is a very good looking job. Keep it coming.

mattmia2

How stable is the water line? Is the boiler full of oil from the new piping and HX and surging and throwing liquid water up in to the system?

EBEBRATT-Ed

When a pound of steam leaves the boiler a pound of water has to return.

You can't fix this with a water feeder because if it feeds when that water does return the boiler will be over filled.

If the condensate comes back slow it could be line pitch. It could be bad traps, it could be a vacuum holding water in the returns or partially plugged returns. When you get steam to the end of the system the condensate returns should start to warm up check the ones that don't.

If the system is large and has a lot of pipe it is possible you may need a condensate or boiler feed tank

AMservices

@johnnygreenham , first off, nice work getting that piped up.

Have you cleaned the hell out of that boiler yet?
A lot of the symptoms you described can be caused by dirty water.

Page 64 in the manual


It shows the .75 nozzle is the correct one with the MST396.
The pump pressure needs to be set to 180 PSI and that gets you to 1.05 GPM. Im almost positive the ever new Beckett pump I've started, the pump is set to 100 psi out of the box.
Definitely need to check that.

The auto feed you have has 2 banks of dip switches.
One adjust the feed rate, the other let's you set a delay up to 10 minutes.
I'd set it to 10 for the next round of testing.

The Cycle Gard LWCO you have shuts the boiler down ever 15 minutes (as you observed). When its checking its self the green light comes on, when it low on water the yellow light comes on.

-Clean water
-Have a qualified person setup your burner
-Set a long delay on auto feed

johnnygreenham

Thank you all for you comments!
I'll try and answer all the questions above.
We did set up the feed for 2 Gal and will lower it to 1 Gal.
We also did set the delay for 10 minutes on the second bank of dip switches.
The Cycle Guard LWCO does come on every 15 minutes and that caught us out the first time it turned the boiler off. I just jumped into the manual and saw that information which I thought is a good idea. I kind of wish I could make it stay off a little longer which may help with the return condensate.
We have not skimmed anything yet. We only ran it for a few hours on and off while testing. We have planned to skim the boiler on our next attempt and probably I will do it a few more time after that.
I have to read up more about condensate or boiler feed tanks. the little I did read about them, the more I was hoping not to have to install one. I'm hoping that we have just not ran this thing yet enough to work all the kinks out and its just a case of initial set up that I didn't quite get right. I definitely not converse in steam knowledge so my learning curve is steep and I'm pretty confident that we have not set this up as correctly as we should have just yet. I'm going to agree with Jamie that we do need to fire it up and have it set up as well as we can, to see what results we are getting after we dial everything in. At that point if nothing changes, I'll have to ask you all what the best way to proceed in regards to adding technology to the system.
I flushed both condensate lines out with 60PSI of water into a trash can twice before we started piping up to make sure we had no plugs or junk from the get go. It was surprisingly clean. I'd say the water ran orange/red for about a quarter of a trash can in both loops and then cleared up. I checked for large solids to see if I had flaking in the lines but really nothing. The piping is in pretty great condition, even the condensate lines which surprised me.
I had enough 2" pipe lying around from when we bought the building to pipe everything up. I picked the cleanest insides of the pipes I had. I re-used some of the old 2" steam pipe (not condensate) for shorter length which was in great condition, but did have the red thin rust film on the inside. I know this has worked its way back into the boiler (probably from the equalizer) as I can see traces of it in the sight glass, so I must skim and clean the boiler well like you all have suggested.
The water level was fairly stable. It bounced a little towards the end which confirms what you are all saying about the oils etc on the water surface.
@AMservices Thank you for the info about the pump. I new we would have to adjust the burner but I didn't expect factory pump setting to be over 40% reduced. That will make a big difference in how quick we can get the steam in those lines. We adjusted the air slider on the burner to adjust the flame but it made no difference visually. The flue gases did change though, for the worse so we just set it back to where it was until we could complete the pump pressure adjustment.

before we adjusted the air

After we adjusted, to see if we could change the flame length