here's a rough one, 7 year old oil fired steam boiler

GW

https://youtu.be/MI5Y3inwaVU

KC_Jones

Ok I’m not an expert on an indirect off a steam boiler. Why is there an aquastat on the steam outlet? Is the hot water leg pipes off the top of the boiler in what is essentially a “dry” area? Is that wrong or do I not know what I’m looking at?

Oh and the steam piping is all wrong too.

What did they call you in for?

kcopp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVfkYZmXHAg

GW

KC I was there to give a ductless quote. I ran to the basement to check out the elec panel. This stopped me in my tracks. I'm trying to pay more attention to steam jobs and getting more pics and vids to build myself a small library. I did chat with her a bot about the steam, and she seems content. i'm not gonna break out into some weird 'who did your piping it's all wrong" routine, that's just not in my dna.

GW

yes the water is being dumped into the top of the boiler.

Canucker

> @GW said:
> KC I was there to give a ductless quote. I ran to the basement to check out the elec panel. This stopped me in my tracks. I'm trying to pay more attention to steam jobs and getting more pics and vids to build myself a small library. I did chat with her a bot about the steam, and she seems content. i'm not gonna break out into some weird 'who did your piping it's all wrong" routine, that's just not in my dna.

When you finish the ductless install, casually point out that you service steam systems as well. I'm sure the install of the ductless should convince them that it would be a good idea to let you take care of the steam system when they feel it's necessary, instead of the last guy that did it

GW

yes I can try to drop some seeds. I presume the installer also gave a quote for the ductless so I may never step foot in the house again. I just learned there's a state-wide data base for ductless installation costs, and I'm a bit higher than the people that i suspect installed this and also quoted the ductless.

EBEBRATT-Ed

They had no clue. Funny thing is they sometimes work.

Fred

Wow, Just WOW!

GW

Update, I scattered some more seeds, and she said Yes! (boiler repipe, I already have a wife)

https://youtu.be/hEsfvX5qY_o

Fred

Nice!

Snowmelt

did you also get the ductless job

JUGHNE

Great looking install.
How did you convince the homeowner, most, as was said, have no clue and if it heats somewhat then it isn't broken.

I know the honest face with the great smile!

EBEBRATT-Ed

Looks a lot better. The original installed could have done that for the same money....if he had opened the manual and read it

GW

> @Snowmelt said:
> did you also get the ductless job

Yes I need to type it up 😄

GW

> @JUGHNE said:
> Great looking install.
> How did you convince the homeowner, most, as was said, have no clue and if it heats somewhat then it isn't broken.
>
> I know the honest face with the great smile!

Lol thanks 🙏 I gingerly asked if her steam system made noises and heated unevenly and she said yes. I escalated the conversation and told her I could repute the boiler and make the problems go away (in so many words).

mikeg2015

So... did all the problems go away?

What brand minisplits are you guys selling? Any issues with flare connections? Just curious.

ratio

Mitsubishi, Carrier, the occasional other brand of mini splits, Mitsubishi & Lennox VRF systems (both heat pump & heat recovery). The guesstimator keeps threatening to sell a Daiken VRF system, but hasn't managed to yet, that I'm aware of.

Once I got a eccentric-cone style flare tool, the problems mostly went away. A touch of Nylog to lubricate the flare got rid of the few remaining I have a digital torque wench that I use, but the recommended torque from the tool manual might be too high—it always seems to want to push the copper out of the flare nut.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@ratio
"Guesstimator",, love it. aint it the truth!!

GW

Mike the steam is much better.

The ductless—-we install Mitsubishi and a little Carrier. I think the steam knowledge got me the ductless work- because she said my prices were higher.

We have been using zoom lock flare joints for about a year. There was a small learning curve involved. Once we perfected the process, we started saving lots of time

We use a digital torque wrench

I posted a vid a couple weeks ago on how we do the vacuum process, we get very low numbers on the vac

ratio

@GW, you zoomlock onto soft copper? I know the paperwork says that's fine, but I'm still a little nervous about it.

GW

Yes it’s pretty common, just make the tube straight before you cut. Read the directions 😄

STEVEusaPA

ratio said:

...I have a digital torque wench that I use...

Wench?...What's her name, how much do you pay her?

ratio

Why, Torquè, of course.

GW

Steve I’ll take a pic next time I have it out, it’s like 150 I’m guessing

it has a fast beep as you get close. When you hit your spot it’s a steady beep. It’s slick because it has pre set button. The older wrench was a pain cause we had to switch the heads and change the awful dial to adjust torque

I’ve seen comments on other sites, it blows my mind how many people struggle to flare and not be leak-less. A long time ago we floundered as well, but it’s pretty easy to learn things these days

I spoke one guy he said he uses copper lock to make sure it’s good.

ratio

Sounds like you've go the same one, Black Max (IIRC) from Johnstone? Works good for me, but like I said, the recommended torque for the smaller flares tend to push the copper out of the fitting. We've been Zoom Locking & brazing lately, I haven't had much time to look into exactly what's happening. (Could even be user error, I suppose.)

I used copper lock once, on a condensate line in a bldg that wanted a 4 hour fire watch if you lit a torch. Pressed everything else. Worked good, I guess, no callbacks. I use Nylog, AKA gorilla snot, to keep my flares leak-free. For damaged flare surfaces, I use (or will, haven't had to yet!) flaretites. They look like they'd work like tits.

GW

Hummm I’m never heard of the flares getting pushed. You taking home made flare or a zoom look flare? Zoom flares are perfect. Self made flares can be all over the map. We have this cool flare gauge made my Diaken, it’s frustrating when the tool doesn’t agree with your efforts. I’ve done flares 3 times on occasion because I wasn’t “nailing it” that day. Other times I’ll nail 3 in a row.

ratio

Flared with an Anchor eccentric cone tool, if anything a little on the long side (occasionally the flare doesn't want to go into the nut). If I try and torque a ¼" line down to the default numbers in the tool, it's >really< tight, to the point that I'm worried about breaking the nut or something. I backed one off once, the flare looked terrible. I ended up cutting it off & re-flaring, to a lesser torque.

As I recall, I never got around to comparing the tool's suggested torque to the mfgr's. I'll see if I can take a look at that some time next week.

GW

I have this chart on my cloud “ductless tech” album, yet the numbers are pre set in our tool. If the nut doesn’t easily slide over the flare the flare is way too big.

My memory kicked in some, I have had a flare joint bust off a couple of times- a long time ago before we had the flare gauge tool. But now we use zoom so I haven’t flares a ductless line in a year or so.

We use 17nm for 1/4, 40 for 3/8, 56 for 1/2.

GW

I guess I can’t upload the pics

ratio

Try zipping it first.
I found the manual here, it shows 18 N-m for a ¼" pipe size. It's been so long that I can't remember what I ended up using. Or even if that's the preset I used…

GW

I’ll try again to post pics

Erin Holohan Haskell

@GW Let me know if you need help posting the photos.

GW

OK thanks the uploader doesn't like the iphone I guess, the PC is all good

GW

hummm this is what I saw on my iphone too

Erin Holohan Haskell

I'm running into the same issue on iPhone. Our team is looking into it. Thanks for the heads up.

Erin Holohan Haskell

Photos

GW

OK cool. The flare gauge is a curse and a blessing all in one. I'm unsure who made the official engineering on the perfect flare, but it's impossible for the eyeball to gauge the diameter of the flare without this tool. Once we starting using this tool, all flare leaks went away (proper torque too)

GW

of course this thread drifted into flaring and zoomlock-- all good

GW

The wrench