Noritz Acquires Peerless Boiler

Ironman

EBEBRATT-Ed

LOL the end of cast iron boilers

RayWohlfarth

Wow never saw that coming

DanHolohan

The good people stay, and with a lot more money backing them. I like it.

STEAM DOCTOR

Anyone with any connections? Can we convince them to not use cyclegard? And to use 24v LWCO? And to install pressure relief valve on top instead of on side(less likely to clog)? Hopefully new ownership will be open to improvements on an already great product.

Erin Holohan Haskell

Here is more info: https://heatinghelp.com/industry-news/noritz-acquires-pb-heat/

Steamhead

DanHolohan said:

The good people stay, and with a lot more money backing them. I like it.

It'll be interesting to see what happens a year or so from now. Having watched some of these acquisitions, the usual pattern is that after a year or so, they start replacing and/or laying off people. It's all about the stockholders and their dividends. Noritz didn't buy PB to lose money.

But, we'll see.

DanHolohan

Not from what I get, Steamhead. This one’s different. Time will tell, sure, but I trust the guy I’m talking to.

Steamhead

Well, I hope you're right.

DanHolohan

Me too

HVACNUT

> @DanHolohan said:
> Not from what I get, Steamhead. This one’s different. Time will tell, sure, but I trust the guy I’m talking to.

Should I should bet the ranch on Noritz stock? I mean, do you realllly trust him?🤪

I'm a bit surprised actually. Hearing their ads on the Yankees radio broadcast, they always waved the flag. I guess it's still "Made in the USA" but net profits are in Yen.

GW

FW Webb stopped stocking the ECT series I guess

DanHolohan

Still stocking it as far as I can tell from their site, @GW.

GW

Yes Dan you're right, but not in W mass, but it can be ordered in.

HVACNUT

I'm not sure how they're related but is Boyertown part of this? Parent company? Separate entity?

DanHolohan

Mestek owns the Boyertown foundry.

kcopp

Let us see what happens.... Im sure Noritz is trying to get more market share w/ the boiler market and water heaters. It is a lot easier to buy into an established brand than to start from scratch.

D107

I am about to have an atmospheric boiler installed in a few weeks. I have a choice between the Peerless MI-03 and Buderus GC 144-3 MBH is almost identical, Peerless HX probably heavier cast iron, Buderus' specially engineer cast iron. Buderus 2.5 % more efficient. Installer has no preference.

My guess is these two boilers --or any atmospherics–– won't be around in ten years. I'd like twenty-five years out of them. When I see a company takeover, like you pros I always am concerned about quality, parts availability, etc. though with atmospherics OEM is less crucial except for HX as I understand it. Whatever my contractor orders now has likely been in the pipeline before the merger. Hearing about the merger I'm more inclined to go with the Buderus, which does have a good tech dept that will deal with homeowners--not so for Peerless. Any thoughts?

Ironman

I think either would fine. The Buderus does have the superior cast iron which can operate down to 104* allowing greater efficiency.

The installer is the key; he's 98% of the equation.

mikeg2015

Atmospherics will still have a place. Simple. Very simpe, durable, reliable. A lot of cost and complexity wit ha mod-con and if return water can’t get under 140F most of the season, you gain almost nothing except burning 120W+ for the inducer and electronics vs. 30-40W for atmospheric with a flue damper.

D107

@Ironman I'm not sure this Buderus GC144-3 would operate down to 104º as it doesn't work with the Logamatic with its pumplogic. I know my mother's G115 did....We're keeping the system simple. Installer, who knows his stuff, plans to keep this at 160º--we're attaching a Turbomax 44 instead of standard indirect. OR won't really apply much here except when temps get really cold and 160+º temp is required.
@mikeg2015 Good to hear there might still be parts for these in 20 years. Sometimes when companies merge, the worst doesn't happen --as I've been told with Lochinvar. depends on the fine print of the deal I guess. I'm thinking Buderus is unlikely to be bought out, so I may hitch my wagon with them.

Ironman

Buderus was bought by Bosch about 8 - 10 years ago.

D107

@Ironman Ha, thanks, totally forgot. I can't say if the buyout has affected them; I have spoken to heating techs who say the GC144-3 is just their way of keeping their toe in that market. Clearly they're emphasizing the Bosch name more now with their newer products.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Me I would go Peerless. Hate the lack of parts availability on the other stuff. Keep it simple. but thats just me

SuperTech

I second that. If you want a simple, reliable and durable boiler that's easy to service you can't go wrong with Peerless, nothing against Buderus.

GBart

Having been in the industry for almost 50 years and having worked at numerous locations that got bought out and worked at Carrier I can say that these are generally not good things.

For a very few yes, first to look for is the weight of Peerless boilers dropping like Burnhams did.

SuperTech

> @GBart said:
> Having been in the industry for almost 50 years and having worked at numerous locations that got bought out and worked at Carrier I can say that these are generally not good things.
>
> For a very few yes, first to look for is the weight of Peerless boilers dropping like Burnhams did.

I really hope that doesn't happen, but it wouldn't surprise me. Usually the first thing the new owners will do is try to figure out ways to cut costs and save money. Maybe they will stop selling their steamers with cyclegaurds.

DanHolohan

Or it could just be that the new owners want a presence in the cast-iron market, so they bought a great company and want to keep it as is. That's what they told me.

Ironman

@D107,
Whether it's Buderus or Peerless, the controls are standard American brands on the cast iron gas boilers. So, getting those shouldn't be an issue.

D107

The fact that Buderus does have a very interactive tech support team does make a difference to me, although where I found it helpful with the family home's G115 was mostly with tweaking the Logamatic and Room sensor settings. There turned out to be a lot of good Buderus info that wasn't put in the manuals. As far as I know Peerless is closed to homeowners. I can understand why, but it would be nice.

SuperTech

> @D107 said:
> The fact that Buderus does have a very interactive tech support team does make a difference to me, although where I found it helpful with the family home's G115 was mostly with tweaking the Logamatic and Room sensor settings. There turned out to be a lot of good Buderus info that wasn't put in the manuals. As far as I know Peerless is closed to homeowners. I can understand why, but it would be nice.

If you are buying a standard Peerless cast iron boiler I highly doubt that you would ever need any technical assistance with anything, just as long as it's installed correctly.

Who needs tech support anyway when you have The Wall? 😉

Jellis

GW said:

Yes Dan you're right, but not in W mass, but it can be ordered in.

Still plenty of ECT's stock in the company, can have it delivered in Springfield either Monday Wednesday for Friday. How many sir?

Fred

@D107 , You are buying now. The quality of the product you get is now quality. There is nothing on a cast iron boiler that will fail that isn't readily available in a verity of flavors from almost any source except maybe a boiler section and if that is needed, it's "boiler time" anyway. Buy what makes sense for you and what readily has local service if you are averse to replacing your own safeties and controls.
If you buy a more complicated piece of equipment because you fear parts availability or obsolescence 20 years from now think about what that might mean during those 20 years. We've all been there. Any good Steam Pro can work on a cast iron boiler. You don't see the steam Pros on here saying they only work on WM or Burnham or Peerless or Smith or whatever. They carry common controls/parts on their truck and work on whatever brand cast iron you have. Not so with the more complicated/specialized equipment.

Timco

Did anyone see the movie Bad Parents? It's all PB tee-shirts, logos, and Peerless related. The coach is a Peerless manager, and it doesn't paint a good picture of the guy, lol. Wonder how they worked that in there...