Liner wont reach the basement in old victorian

Johnny_D

Well its cold again and getting back to my heat projects. My house is very tall with hipped slate roof and gables so we have a 86 foot lift rented.

We pulled the 8inch vent pipe from the outer wall of the chimney in the basement. Broke through the brick to the 4th lung (the other 3 are fireplaces) and without a chimney cap found it completely jammed with debris like a solid wall extending up 3feet (like all 3 fireplaces). Not capped by previous owners.

We measured and ordered 8 inch liner but irregularity proved to much. We resorted to 7 inch liner which made it 35 feet down a 55 foot chimney. This was after we removed brick in the attic to remove a second blockage I am really unsure how this system was venting. Today we broke through a closet and found that there is an offset and things seem to pinch. I need to pull the liner up and send a camera down to understand more. But I have limited time to keep my heat in various states of disrepair and clock is ticking on the lift.

My rational at this point is we are lucky to find blockages. I could leave the liner to where I can reach the bottom of it from the floor of the second floor closet and seal it with tight packed Roxul heat stop to not trap gas between liner and chimney walls. So then I would be unlined for 20 feet below. Last IF possible could reduce to a 6inch liner IF that mighty make the extreme offset, spiral and odd shaped flue (I need to review more tomorrow). The water heater can be replaced with another solution like a heat pump there are two appliances on the vent now. The input BTU is 315 on that independence (though it mentions a ~192k number as steam BTU assume not use that) and the hood collar is 8inches. I assume if I reduced I could go to 7inches. Then I have code issues when I go to replace the boiler. A 6 inch liner plus the elbows and ~10 foot horizontal make 6inch small. One day the boiler will go and maybe 6-7inch and less BTU are possible to make that work then. I have not calculated all the radiators to see if the current system is oversized. Heck I have not even had a chance to tune it since I did just insulate with 1inch.

None of these solutions are perfect. Maybe a new future boiler can solve. Maybe fan assist. Maybe I can find a way to drop the 6 inch from inside the house through wall in the future and couple to the 7 that is in place. I have no idea if 35 feet of 7" and 20 feet of a 6" improves anything.

Maybe some solution like a form liner can be installed just at the bottom through the twists. Anyway looking for thoughts before I make a call tomorrow mid day. I doubt I will be adding a 6” piping is all 8" and know you cant reduce 2 pipe sizes...

I try to consider I was 90% plugged before and this has to be better and I am not sure what inspections will bring cause last time I replaced a boiler in my 2 family subject never came up.

Thoughts...

STEVEusaPA

Can't you just powervent thru the wall?

Johnny_D

The boiler is dead center in the basement. My thought is when the boiler goes I will look at all options. Less BTU, smaller hood vent size 7 or 6 inch. Power venting options as well and my current issue is getting the best outcome with the chimney and know its future capability. Right now I have the lift and need make a decision (I just lined the 3 other lungs). I will take a look at this from a video camera. See if 6 is an option. I want to make sure that I terminate the seven (still think that might be best) in a place where I can stuff the very bottom so I don't allow gases around the opening.

Anyone have an opinion on the result if 6inch for 20 feet opening to 7 inch for another 30feet? Its either that or go unlined for 20.

Looking forward to power venting options in my future.

HVACNUT

Theres no reducing with a chimney liner. It should be sized in compliance with the manufacturer of the appliance(s). And it must be a hard connection throughout. No patching or stuffing anything.
The camera might have come in handy from the get go.

Dave0176

Look into a chimney company that does Thermocrete lining. Its sprayed in, in layers building a surface over the original brick.

Johnny_D

Dave0176 thank you!

HVACNUT I appreciate that. Need to do this right but need to close her up for now. We accomplished 4 of the 5 liners and this one will need another approach as you indicate. Maybe it serves only a tank maybe a smaller boiler in the future or maybe nothing.

Just to understand I made a number of calls and no one wanted to get on this slate roof. Maybe in the summer I can get the lift back and get a slip liner coordinated. The 86 foot lift arrived and the very first measurements were taken and 4 liners installed without issue to their fireplaces. This one as you can see from the pictures for 10 - 20 years was blocked not once but twice and a weight would not pass. We opened the chimney and cleared the debris.

If a 6 inch liner will fit once I get it open again then I can see if a smaller boiler or maybe just a water heater. I can look into slip liner and power vent options. The project can be done right I just moved in. Something is better than what we had.

What I need now is heat. One challenge is the lung partition bricks are 5 feet down the chimney top. So the liner in there will allow me to properly cap and get the flue gases up and out (thats 4 liners). Regarding stuffing Roxul. The fireplaces are stuffed and parged. I can open this chimney and accomplish the same from above and below the liner end. It will clearly vent more than being double blocked. The lift will leave and I will start the process of a long term solution.

I am NOT trying to do what I please but need the help of a number of experts to do what is best for now. I will have to re-open this but I will have a lot of data/video to share. My hope is I can abandon the lung and take a modern approach. But today I need to make a choice.

So please help me get the heat on and make the safest connection I can until I can get reinforcements.


Flue opening inside the outer wall of chimney base. Its was plugged solid (one of 2 plugs).


2nd blockage at the bend


Chimney base 8 "passing into double wall


Looking up from the flue bottom. The top is ~8x12 still not sure why the pinch at 30 feet. But the last 20 will need to drop a camera. This is the final 7 feet and see that it offsets and twists around the three back to back fireplaces.


The house is tall making it hard to access

Dave0176

Thermocrete lining is perfect for a curved chimney. Had a few customers that, that was the only solution to the curved chimney.

Jamie Hall

Dave0176 said:

Thermocrete lining is perfect for a curved chimney. Had a few customers that, that was the only solution to the curved chimney.

I've used it too -- similar odd situations. Works great -- but you do have to find a competent chimney company to do it.

mikeg2015

Check if 6” would stall work with that much vertical. Pipe sizes can be smaller the taller you get. Should be able to google and find a BTU chart.

Johnny_D

Speaking with my liner company, hvac, I hope I can get a 6 inch and look into a fan inducer in collaboration with a chimney liner. If not power vent side output or slip liner for this curve.

I will update once I get more information today was a washout. Thank you all.