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York Furnace "Ignition lockout due to retries"

seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member
edited October 11 in Gas Heating
Hi, I'm pretty inexperienced working on furnaces but am hoping someone with more knowledge could help me fix it. Just a few days ago I turned on my heat and noticed it wasn't working. It's a natural gas York model TG9S060B12MP11A. I believe its 7-8 years old. I've lived in the house for 2 years and haven't had any problems. Only maintenance I've done is changed filters every couple months.

When I turn it on the fan starts running. Then igniter glows orange. Then the burners fire for 3-4 seconds and then go out. It repeats this series 3 times and shuts down with the blower kicking on. The error code I get is "Ignition lockout due to retries".

I changed filter for the heck of it and still doesn't work.

I tried cleaning flame sensor with no luck. The old one looked pretty nice even before cleaning. I bought a new one made by Source 1 and furnace still doesn't work.

The Hot Surface Igniter visually looks very nice. I did a resistance test on it (using cheap multimeter) and got 85 ohms.

The ground wire attached to the body looked very clean with no corrosion, but I cleaned it anyway. Still not working.

One thing that's weird is throughout my 20 or so attempts to get it going, a couple times it did stay running for awhile. I only ran it for 10-20 minutes just because the weather warmed up and didn't need it. Then next time I turned it on it had the same old problem. The unit is located in my basement which does get kinda damp in the warmer months.

Not sure if its related, but over the summer I did change my water heater from a tank natural gas to tank electric. That might sound dumb but I did it so I could eliminate my deteriorating chimney in order to fix up the roof which had a few leaky areas.

Any advice or suggestions would be very much appreciated!

Sean

Comments

  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,365Member
    Check the ground wire and its connections all the way back to the panel.
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member
    I just traced the ground all the way to panel and everything looks well connected. Still no heat. Thank you for the suggestion.
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,365Member
    Do you have a meter that can measure micro amps?
    Bob Boan







    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 4,539Member
    Picture and number of the gas valve may help.
    Does this light a pilot first or just the main burner right away.
  • seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member
    Ironman said:

    Do you have a meter that can measure micro amps?

    Yes. I have a cheap meter from Harbor Freight and it does measure microamps. What are you thinking?
  • seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member
    JUGHNE said:

    Picture and number of the gas valve may help.
    Does this light a pilot first or just the main burner right away.

    Here are some pictures of gas valve. Its made by White/Rodgers, Model # 36G24, Type 206.

    Excuse my ignorance, but i'm not sure if it lights pilot first or just main burner right away. It has 3 burner tubes....the left most tube is above Hot Surface Igniter. The right most tube is above the flame sensor.

    When I start the furnace, the left tube glows orange for about 12 seconds. Then all 3 burners fire for 3-4 seconds until everything shuts down.

    Its a 95% furnace with no standing pilot light...if that helps

  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 4,539Member
    No pictures shown.
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 4,172Member
    Most likely the flame sensor, sensor wiring or control. Did you try cleaning the flame sensor? Is the flame hitting the flame sensor?
  • seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member
    Had some trouble uploading...these should work
  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 4,539Member
    Are you sure the flame sensor in actually in flame?
    If somehow you have low gas pressure on the burner manifold the flames may not reach the flame sensor.
    There may be a carry over tube that brings the fire from the ignitor over to the other end where the sensor is. Sometimes that can plug and not ignite all the way across.
  • DZoroDZoro Posts: 354Member
    I'd have a technician familiar with that brand, look at it. Some of those had a recall on the condensate box behind the inducer. The boxes were cracking, and giving some of your exact issues that you are having.
  • DZoroDZoro Posts: 354Member
    From the look of the rust on the gas pipe, is a possible sign of a cracked condensate box or leaking someplace. Post a picture farther away and model, serial number can be looked up online.
  • seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member

    Most likely the flame sensor, sensor wiring or control. Did you try cleaning the flame sensor? Is the flame hitting the flame sensor?

    The rod on flame sensor looked very clean. I cleaned it anyway with a fine 3m pad. Didn't work, so I bought a new one. Installed new one and that didn't work either.

    The sensor looks like its in the flame. Although it is right on the edge of the flame. It doesn't seem to be adjustable and there is only one way to install it.

    The sensor wire looks nice. It connects to a plug with many other wires and goes into the circuit board. The terminals all look clean.

    When you say control, is that the circuit board?

  • seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member
    Yea those gas pipe elbows look very rusty. They are right below the pvc intake pipe...i think that is where the water/condensation comes from.
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Posts: 1,386Member
    Could be the board or ICM not receiving the input.
  • seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member
    > @DZoro said:
    > I'd have a technician familiar with that brand, look at it. Some of those had a recall on the condensate box behind the inducer. The boxes were cracking, and giving some of your exact issues that you are having.

    I see 5-6 small stress cracks in that condensate box. There might be more that I cant see. Could that be my problem?
  • seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member
    HVACNUT said:

    Could be the board or ICM not receiving the input.

    Ok. That board is pretty expensive. I'd like to spend a little more time eliminating other possibilities before just swapping parts out and hoping that's the issue. At least its right out front and seems easy to change :)
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Posts: 1,386Member
    edited October 12
    > @seang81 said:
    > Could be the board or ICM not receiving the input.
    >
    > Ok. That board is pretty expensive. I'd like to spend a little more time eliminating other possibilities before just swapping parts out and hoping that's the issue. At least its right out front and seems easy to change :)

    I know my response was short and sweet but I wasn't implying to throw parts at it, just that's its something to diagnose.

    Were lockup and manifold pressures checked?

    Is it a 2 stage gas valve?
    Is it smooth lighting across the burners? No hesitation?
    Spider web in the orifice for the burner with the FS?
  • DZoroDZoro Posts: 354Member
    @sean81 yes, get a new condensate pan and gaskets. Pretty sure you are tripping the pressure switches, during gas ignition. Pressure switches are doing their job don't change them at this point, or any other controls.
  • HVACNUTHVACNUT Posts: 1,386Member
    edited October 12
    > @DZoro said:
    > @sean81 yes, get a new condensate pan and gaskets. Pretty sure you are tripping the pressure switches, during gas ignition. Pressure switches are doing their job don't change them at this point, or any other controls.

    For some reason I can't open the jpeg of the condensate box. I'm sure its suspect as most are, with a lot of makes and models, however, the pressure switch is in series on its journey to the gas valve. Because I cant open the pic, I dont know if theres any other safety in line like a N.C. blocked flue or combustion air pressure switch, but typically a N.O. pressure switch must prove before sending 24v to the gas valve.
    It will go into recycle 3 times with the HSI but the gas valve should not open.

    @sean81
    You should read close to 3mA on the flame sensor. Use an alligator clip lead for the sensor side.

    Is the sensor wire pinched, cut, connection to the board clean?

    I know you don't want to hear it but...
  • seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member
    @HVACNUT
    I get about 1.0 mA on the flame sensor. I put my old FS back in and got the same reading. The wire to the board looks good and connection to board is clean. Is it possible my new OEM flame sensor is bad? Or could this mean it is problem with my control board? One weird thing is when I tested Microamps a couple days ago I got 2.3 mA.

    Its a 1 stage gas valve. The part # is S1-32537426000. The burners seem to light smoothly...it almost looks like all 3 start firing at the same time.

    No, lockup and manifold pressures were not checked. I dont know what those are?....switches?

    What is N.C.? and N.O.?

  • seang81seang81 Posts: 11Member
    @DZoro

    I can try to upload some more pictures later...my internet connection isn't great and i'm having a heck of a time getting pictures uploaded on here.

    The condensate box is buried back there and looks pretty hard to change. I'd probably have to call a pro for that. Looks as though the gas valve would need to be removed, but i'm not sure :/
  • DZoroDZoro Posts: 354Member
    That box needs to be replaced before you spend anymore time and money on controls.
    If then you still have issues we can start looking at the control system etc.
    I have seen this scenario many times..... ;)
  • ratioratio Posts: 1,563Member
    There's water dripping down across the gas line from above, the traces are barely visible on the plate that holds the burners, just about right in line with the flame rod. In fact, on second look the rollout switch right above has some rust on the right-hand terminal. Pull it off & check the resistance through it, then push the terminal on & off a few times to clean up the connection.

    Find out where the water is coming from. Check the drain on the A/C, maybe pull the plug in the overflow drain & see what it looks like. What is the discharge temp when the A/C is running? Any chance the coil's been icing over? Are you getting enough airflow in cooling mode? Take a look at the under side of the coil & see what the fins look like.

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