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Graphene

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Gordy
Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
Could it have a place in this industry? Think radiant.

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  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,259
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    pencil lead?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Can be made from it.
    ChrisJ
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
    edited July 2018
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    First thing I thought of was a fission reactor.

    "Dear, it's a bit chilly, can you raise the rods a little please?"

    No, I don't think you'd be allowed such a thing. :p

    Nor do I think I want anyone around me having it to be honest. Next thing you know, one gauge says the waters high while Wilfred's says it's low..... Nope, no good can come of it.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • willasdad
    willasdad Member Posts: 23
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    I think there’s potential there, Graphene is so cool I’m sure with the right minds at task it could happen
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    The cost most deffinetly needs to come down in manufacturing.

    It’s being used in paints for helicopter rotor blades for deciding due to its incredible conductivity, and strength.

    Experiments with concrete could eliminate reinforcing steel in some applications.

    Think conductive concrete for snowmelt, or radiant.

    Even radiant surfaces no thicker than a coat of paint.

    Graphene coated heat transfer plates where the base material could be a cheaper, and thinner one.

    Graphene boiler HX to exchange those btus from the fire side.

    It’s being used in solar already.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited July 2018
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    > @ChrisJ said:
    > First thing I thought of was a fission reactor.
    >
    > "Dear, it's a bit chilly, can you raise the rods a little please?"
    >
    > No, I don't think you'd be allowed such a thing. :p
    >
    > Nor do I think I want anyone around me having it to be honest. Next thing you know, one gauge says the waters high while Wilfred's says it's low..... Nope, no good can come of it.


    Convert one pellet to Btus with information provided.
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,653
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    I'm always a little suspicious of things that cure baldness, increase fuel mileage, improve lottery odds, and are made out of industrial byproducts. Throwing in the overpopulation meme just seems a little over the top.
    1Matthias
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
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    ratio said:

    I'm always a little suspicious of things that cure baldness, increase fuel mileage, improve lottery odds, and are made out of industrial byproducts. Throwing in the overpopulation meme just seems a little over the top.

    Well.
    The fuel mileage thing is a bit odd considering for a very long time we had cars that couldn't do better than 16 MPG and now we have cars that are equally heavy doing 35-40 MPG all while being more powerful.


    Hell, we've got pickup trucks doing better than 20 MPG..

    Just throwing that out there...…...
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    We have had high mpg cars for decades. Equally heavy maybe, but the new age is larger in size do to composite materials. So the weight ratio hasn’t changed much.

    Define pickup truck in size? I had an 88 gmc s-15 that would get 28 all day long. I also paid 8k brand new off the lot.

    The cost of new vehicles are ridicules. Especially pickups which use to be the cheapest thing on the lot.
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,784
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    > @Gordy said:
    > We have had high mpg cars for decades. Equally heavy maybe, but the new age is larger in size do to composite materials. So the weight ratio hasn’t changed much.
    >
    > Define pickup truck in size? I had an 88 gmc s-15 that would get 28 all day long. I also paid 8k brand new off the lot.
    >
    > The cost of new vehicles are ridicules. Especially pickups which use to be the cheapest thing on the lot.


    Ok Gordy....
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    Gordy
  • GroundUp
    GroundUp Member Posts: 1,926
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    "

    Well.
    The fuel mileage thing is a bit odd considering for a very long time we had cars that couldn't do better than 16 MPG and now we have cars that are equally heavy doing 35-40 MPG all while being more powerful.


    Hell, we've got pickup trucks doing better than 20 MPG..

    Just throwing that out there...…...

    Well. We've had cars doing 40+ since the 50's with a 283 V8 and a carburetor versus today's 1.6L turbo junk. Sure, the 70's boats with big blocks and 3.50 gears did get 16 MPG but were also toting around triple the engine our modern stuff is. That same LTD with a 302 and 2.75 gears did 30 all day. I will admit the pickups are generally doing better nowadays but the grocery getter trucks doing 20+ have 3.31 gears and will die a painful death pulling a 16ft boat- they are no longer trucks when they can't pull anything. A real truck with a gas engine still gets crappy mileage no matter what you do, they are keeping something from us lol. I had a '94 F150 with a 5.0L and 4spd with 3.73 gears that would get 16-17 MPG if I took it easy and tipped the scales at 5400 LBS. I now drive a 2011 F150 with 3.73's and a 6spd that only does 18 MPG at 5900 LBS on the best of days. Don't tell me we can't get 35 MPG out of a half ton truck- they just don't want us to. There is absolutely no reason a 2.5L car weighing 3000 LBS doesn't get 80 MPG by now with our technology.

    GordySolid_Fuel_Man
  • 1Matthias
    1Matthias Member Posts: 148
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    I've got bad news....if you want a 3000lbs car that can get 80mpg, you've just described a Prius. ;P
  • mikeg2015
    mikeg2015 Member Posts: 1,194
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    ChrisJ said:

    ratio said:

    I'm always a little suspicious of things that cure baldness, increase fuel mileage, improve lottery odds, and are made out of industrial byproducts. Throwing in the overpopulation meme just seems a little over the top.

    Well.
    The fuel mileage thing is a bit odd considering for a very long time we had cars that couldn't do better than 16 MPG and now we have cars that are equally heavy doing 35-40 MPG all while being more powerful.


    Hell, we've got pickup trucks doing better than 20 MPG..

    Just throwing that out there...…...
    Most engine advancement has been around emissions, it's actually limited fuel economy improvements somewhat. Wieght has stayed abotu the same while cars have generally gottne larger, but also imrpoved in crash performance and gottne quieter.

    Biggest advancement is probably in aerodynamics. CAFE and fuel prices/consumer demand has justified adding grill dampers, underbody trays, and more expensive sheetmetal forms to squeeze out a little more mileage.

    I do agree overall, that it's amazing that a little 1.5L in my Honda Civic makes 170HP, nearly the torque of a small V6 down low and is as large as a midsized car 10 years ago, and gets 42-50mpg highway on regular 87 gas with 10% ethanol.

    There's a 200HP Si version with a 6 speed manual that only has a 4mpg penalty.

    Unfortunately prices have continued to rise.

    1MatthiasDan_NJSolid_Fuel_Man
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,259
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    Increasing gas milage will more and more have to do with aerodynamics, according to a recent PopSci article.

    The arm wrestling goes on between designers, marketing and engineers. Designing a slippery vehicle is possible, but a moot point if no one will buy it.

    The underside of pickups is where much of the drag is.

    How much more efficient can a reciprocating engine get? Stopping, and starting reversing direction of multiple pistons seems limited.

    Back in the day some car magazines listed piston feet per mile as an indication of expected engine life.

    With todays short stroke, high rpm motors, maybe we end up with 100- 150,00 mile engines.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    I think a lot more can be done to reduce friction. In the motor, and drive train. Along with drag. But we are already silly expensive now.
  • The Steam Whisperer
    The Steam Whisperer Member Posts: 1,218
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    For high MPG trucks, diesel has always been the way to go ( for cars too) IMO . I"ve managed over 33 highway with the a/c on and tipping the scales around 7500 lb with my new Chevy 2500 van with the 2.8 diesel. Same amount of torque as gas engines twice the size and at about 1/2 the rpm. Perfect for lugging around the kind of weight we carry. We run about 20 city. Unfortunately GM has done almost nothing to address the aero issues with the van. They did add a bumper air dam and are doing a better job at directing air flow through the grill actually thorugh the radiator rather than around it like most of other recent american vehicles. If they simple added an undertray to the front end (which would probably increase cooling efficiency),
    add wheel well liners and tire spats, and tighten up the front grill they could probably get 35 highway. These improvement would probably also increase highway stability and safety. The boxy Audi sedans of the late 70's already had undertrays and Drag coefficients of .28... manufacturer's, especially US, have just been lazy when it comes to simple aero upgrades. Remember the boxy Chyrsler Imperial in the mid 80's....it had the same drag as the same vintage Firebird.
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  • Larry Weingarten
    Larry Weingarten Member Posts: 3,335
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    Hello, I know a guy, Craig Vetter. He made fairings for motorcycles, and more recently has been doing full streamlining for them. He's held a number of mileage contests, seeing who could get the most miles from a gallon. Basically, streamlining DOUBLES the mileage at higher speeds. Here's a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craig_Vetter_Fuel_Economy_Challenge

    Yours, Larry
    1Matthias