Oil to gas conversion with no permit Brooklyn NY?

EBEBRATT-Ed

@coelcanth , I doubt that you will collect a dime in rebates without permits.

Leonard

Interesting thing here is a lawyer said that city doesn't bother about issuing violation notices for things that have been illegally done years ago if they show . Reason is they had the opportunity to complain about it and they didn't . So statute of limitations applys.

j a_2

Mad Dog said:

I SEE and have been on both sides, as a contractor and homeowner. I've seen soooo

Many times, these non-permited heating equipment, gas and plumbing issues rear their ugly heads and ALWAYS at the worst times:

It pops up at the real estate closing or two day before when Uncle Morty & Aunt Mildred have their bags packed to Go South for retirement. Or, Uncle Gus did all his own work in the house, but he's dead and his CLUELESS wife is left holding the bag. It's always HIGH stress for them, the closing gets delayed and sometimes the deal is broken! Don't leave this for you or your family to come back to bite you'll down the road. Get an architect, an LMP and grab the bull by the horns

The granite countertops, drapes, flat screen TV can wait. Business before pleasure. BTW,,Ed is 100% right. Good luck and keep us apprised. YOU CAN DO THIS! MAD DOG

You sir, Mad Dog nailed it...

coelcanth

it just doesn't seem to be true in new york city..
the real estate market is too competitive.

like i said, our 100 year old house had never had a permit opened in its entire history..
but it certainly isn't still heated with the antique boiler, and all the asbestos disappeared, and it had a tight roof, and hot water, and the original lead water pipes have (mostly) been replaced with copper...

the other prospective buyers didn't even blink about these changes or whether they were inspected or completed with proper permits..

mostly they were seen as improvements that added value.

adambnyc

I'm born and raised in sheepshead bay, Brooklyn myself. While i'm not one of the pros, i do have some experience in this exact area. First, The electrical inspector, plumbing inspector and building inspector are not the same people. You call for a plumbing inspection on the work done, the plumbing inspector should be looking at only what was done. He isnt qualified to comment on your garage or deck, nor would he, or the borough know how long those items were there, if you had them installed or if you bought the house with them already there.

If i were you, i'd pull the permit and let the chips fall where they may, and most likely, nothing will happen other than you having a new heating system that has passed inspection.

Lets play this out a bit. Lets say, for some reason they ding you on the garage and the deck. They then put a lien against the house and you have to remedy it. You dont have to do that immediately. You dont really have to do anything until you intend on selling the house!

When you do go and sell the house, guess what? Inspection time. You may have to correct all the issues to even sell the house! My inlaws had a garage converted into a livingroom for their then live in elderly mother. When they went to sell the house.. DING, had to rip the front off the converted garage and reinstall a garage door. Take a guess at what the new owners did after the house was sold? Converted back!

So my point here is if you dont get that new gas boiler inspected, your gonna get dinged when you go to sell the house, and then your gonna have to get it inspected. If you get the system installed and god forbid something happens that causes damage to your home and its deemed that it came from the heating system, Insurance company is gonna say "where's the inspection for this? oh, there is none? DENIED" ive seen it happen to a friend of mine. Ruined him

Aside from that, your gonna want to tell National Grid that you are now using Natural Gas to heat your home. They used to discount the gas because its now your primary source. also... rebates... look into city, state and federal rebates when you do the switch. Could offset alot of cost

https://www.nationalgridus.com/media/pdfs/resi-ways-to-save/national-grid-nyc-residential-gas-rebate-application.pdf

so if it were me, i'd pull the permit. If its a single family home and i could do the work myself (like i did in my house when i moved to NJ) i'd pull it under my name and have the inspection done.

Thank god you dont have an underground storage tank for oil, like i did in NJ. GOTTA PULL a permit for that! God forbid that thing leaked when they removed it. EPA nightmare!

mleads310

After much thought and advice from people on this forum, I've decided to do it the proper and legal way. I'm currently getting estimates from only the plumbers that were willing to do the work the correct way with a permit and ignoring the ones that would've proceeded without one. I'm waiting for two additional plumbers to come here to evaluate my conversion and compare which one gives me the most detailed estimate along with who I feel is most knowledgeable. Price won't be a factor in my decision(unless it's 3 times higher than the highest estimate etc). I just wanted to thank everyone for their input and I'll follow up in a couple months when the process is completed. Thanks again.

DanHolohan

So glad ito hear this. Thanks!

NY_Rob

There's enough things in NY to keep you up at night... a shady boiler install shouldn't be one of them!

Congrats, and best of luck going forward.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Good choice! You will sleep better at night

Mad Dog_2

A small, local, and significant victory for the cause. You won't regret it! I commend you for stepping up to the line of scrimmage. Mad Dog

Zman

Please report back as to how this goes.

I sincerely hope that your perception of the local building authorities proves to be untrue.
I have found that these situations are often exaggerated by contractors that do not want to pull permits and owners who are caught doing doing unpermitted work themselves.

The idea that they are busting people for planning and zoning violations committed by previous owners when doing gas appliance inspections is unthinkable and wrong. It would be like arresting someone who is dropping an endangered baby at the fire station because of an unpaid parking ticket from the cars previous owner.

When is comes to boiler inspections, public safety should be the only consideration.

If you feel you are being treated unfairly by the inspectors, I would suggest making this point.

I congratulate you for stepping up and doing the right thing and I hope the inspectors are reading this post

Mad Dog_2

Pat yourself on the back. You will sleep better. Mad Dog

coelcanth

EBEBRATT-Ed said:

@coelcanth , I doubt that you will collect a dime in rebates without permits.

well, if anyone is watching, i just deposited my rebate check.
it was about 8% back on the cost of boiler and installation.
not much of a dent but everything helps...

hope things are going well for mleads on his project

mleads310

Hey guys I actually was just notofied of the most recent response to this thread. So much has happened since I last posted on this discussion board. I almost forgot to respond with the outcome until I was just notified that someone had posted another message on the thread.

Long story short it all work out correctly. Shortly after posting on this discussion board my boiler kicked the can. So there was a day or two where I was scrambling with the cold weather to get the boiler fixed and or replaced. It just so happens within those two days of scrambling one of my neighbors reminded me that his cousin was a master plumber and he owned a business out of Staten Island. They filed an emergency permit converted it from oil to gas and the inspection went through with no issues whatsoever. In fact the inspector was more concerned with the gas fittings and hookups and testing than anything else. The price was very reasonable in the middle of the pact as you could say with the exact equipment that I was looking for. Pvg5 with superstore 60. So anyone else out there considering doing the work without a permit I must say I was pretty much concerned and worried all about nothing. And in the end even if they would have fined me for something that was illegal in the house it just isn't worth it knowing what other troubles can come about having the work done illegally. I could take a sign of relief knowing that I'm able to notify my insurance company that I converted from oil to gas and God forbid anything would happen I'm covered.

Oh and regarding the rebates I received a total of $1,500 back both and gift card and check for the equipment installed.

I just wanted to thank everybody on this form for all the insight and advice they are giving me I wish I would have taken it sooner

lchmb

So Dan...make sure you link the story when you print it...;) LOL.. Mleads glad to hear it came out the way it should... stay warm..:)

ScottSecor

Glad to hear it all worked out.

Mimi

https://forum.heatinghelp.com/discussion/comment/1512393#Comment_1512393

I’m in the exact same situation. My dad has done much altering to the house. And he is planning on doing oil to gas himself. Not a licensed plumber, but very experienced in doing these types of work. I can’t convinced him to go for permit because of the altering works that were done. He’s afraid that having dob inspector coming in would open up a Pandora’s box. Could you please share a little more on how long it took from the moment you applied for the permit to the moment the inspection was done? How long was the inspection? Where did the inspection go in the house?

Mad Dog_2

This ain't the 1970s when everyone did what they pleased. You'll regret not following the rules here. Mad Dog

ScottSecor

This may or may not help, especially since we're across the Hudson River here in NJ.

Family member decides to sell her house six months ago and puts the house up for sale in August. The first day of the sale a buyer places a fair offer and claims they will be paying cash, no mortgage needed. This means no inspections, nothing to fix, upgrade, nothing has to be made code compliant, etc.

After signing an agreement, things changed and now the bank and potential buyer are demanding many items are not code compliant and or permits were never filed. As of this moment the following needed to be done on an "emergency" basis in order to close on the house:

Permit for the replacement natural gas water heater that was installed five years ago.

Removal of the twenty-four foot round above ground swimming pool, three years old - no permit.

Removal of the one hundred foot long underground electrical feed to the pool filter, - no permit.

Removal of the forty foot run in the basement and the breaker to pool filter - no permit.

Removal of the mechanical sump pump installed before they bought the house - no permit and no backflow preventer (this is apparently a recent code adoption).

Permits and inspections for the bathroom they installed five years ago, recessed lights, basement finish work they did (made a tv room) , patio, fence, etc.

My point is, it cost the family about $15,000 in the last month to undo what they already spent over $50,000 to have done. Pulling permits for everything may have cost them about $1500 in total. To add to the mix, the buyer plans on leveling their small ranch house and building a five thousand square foot home.

pecmsg

if or when you get caught con Ed WILL shut the gas off to the building. They do not care if it’s summer or winter. Once EVERYTHING is up to code they will turn it back on. 30, 60, 90 days or more is not uncommon.