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Low humidity

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Snowmelt
Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
I never heard of low humidity using b.b. it’s a 1,100 sq ft home with 75,000 btu boiler. The only monkey wrench in the equation is that there is also I fijistu system in the house and is used 3-4 hours out of the day in one of 7 rooms. Customer has thermometer with humidity percentage and there reading 16 %. Can they all be broke, I want to rule that out since the temperature on the thermometer are different depending on the room, customer also complains about getting a shock once in a while.

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  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,251
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    go to you local weather station online and see what the current humidity level is. Tends to be low in winter months. I just spent 3 days in Denver dealing with low humidity, static in my clothes, and getting zapped touching door knobs.

    Any wood stoves burning?
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    No wood burning stove
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,251
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    Snowmelt said:

    No wood burning stove

    Where you located? Indoor humidity will be close to outdoor unless you are running a humidifier, or dehumidifying somehow.
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    If there is a lot of infiltration there's your killer.
    Canucker
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    The out side temp on a thermometer says 7 degrees wile the online wheather says 8 degrees, the out door humidity says 44 on the thermometer and 42 on line. The same thermometer says 16 % humidity inside.? Once again not forced hot air, it’s B.B.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited January 2018
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    If you have 8 degree oat, and it infiltrates to 70 degrees bye bye 42%
    CanuckerZmanRich_49
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    Gordy, that does sound like a possibility I feel the outside walls and they did feel cold
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Boil water, refrain from exhaust fans. Buy a humidifier.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Just going in and out can suck the humidity out of a house with low temps like that in an 1100 sf home. With the long cold spells hard to get back.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 22,251
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    Usually BB doesn't dry the air. What type of boiler, combustion air from inside? 40-60% indoor is often the suggested indoor humidity in winter months.

    https://www.energyvanguard.com/blog/what-is-the-best-indoor-relative-humidity-in-winter
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    30 year old Utica natural draft in chimney
  • kcopp
    kcopp Member Posts: 4,440
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    Its been brutal here in New England.... pretty much hovering around 0F for almost 2 weeks. I have a old house, panel rads oil heat.
    My wife and I have to be careful giving each other a kiss goodnight....its been painful at times w/ the shocks on the lips...
    Gordy
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    I think I’m just going to by small humidifier
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    hydro_newbie
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    You can find recommended indoor humidity levels all over the place. Depending on what the goals are. Comfort. Illness, Windows condensing etc. I like this one. Another couple charts showing how outdoor air loses humidity when heated to indoor temps.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited January 2018
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    hydro_newbie
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited January 2018
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    .
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    Thanks for the charts , but I need to think of just getting a humidifier, is there any brand you would recommend?
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    I just use the little steam one in my bedroom. Sleeping is what bugs me most. It's a battle filling all the time.
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,578
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    Before that goodnight kiss, just discharge any static by touching the radiator, and then............………………—NBC
    Gordykcopp
  • Jamie Hall
    Jamie Hall Member Posts: 23,426
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    Take cold outside air (like -8 this morning) and heat it to comfort (like 67 this morning) and even if it was saturated outside it's going to be very dry inside. That's the bottom line.

    The only solution is a humidifier.
    Br. Jamie, osb
    Building superintendent/caretaker, 7200 sq. ft. historic house museum with dependencies in New England
    Canucker
  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    Thanks guys you are all the best, for Christmas my wife was giving like 200.00 to bed bath and beyond so I guess we will just by some there.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,607
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    @Snowmelt
    The advise @Jamie Hall & @Gordy gave you is correct. When you heat outside air at the temperatures we have been having up to 70deg the humidity level goes in the toilet.

    The type of heat you have baseboard, warm air, steam makes absolutely no difference. It's the psychometric properties of air.

    If you buy a humidifier don't buy a small one. Buy a big one. You will get plenty of exercise hauling water to it and cleaning & maintaining it......it's a hassle
  • NY_Rob
    NY_Rob Member Posts: 1,370
    edited January 2018
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    Like most of the NE it's been brutal here too the last couple of days...

    Right now it's 10F outside with 25% humidity, indoors it's 69F with 24% humidity.

    I have a (sealed combustion) mod-con with baseboard rads.

    Even with the bedroom humidifier cranked, it only raises the humidity in that room 10% or so and we still have dry sinuses when we wake up in the morning.

  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,572
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    The relationship between indoor humidity and outdoor temp is very interesting. When I first started data logging jobs I was convinced that the loggers had gone bad. Indoor humidity tracks outdoor temp and humidity far more than I would have guessed.
    I now have a small fleet of these and other loggers.
    http://www.onsetcomp.com/products/data-loggers/ux100-003,

    It is a great tool when trying to determine whether you have a mechanical problem or a human one. The sensors don't lie. Did a project a few months ago where the morning employees complaining about cold temps. After looking at the logs, I was able to tell the owner that night manager from Tuesday to Friday liked the temp around 60 degrees and was turning down the heat.

    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
    edited January 2018
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    It's as simple as Mother Nature always try's to equalize. Hot to cold, moist to dry, high pressure to low pressure.

    Hot air from the envelope try's to escape, it has to be replaced. In comes the villain, cold seemingly moist air until it is heated.

    Infiltration happens in the tightest of envelopes. ACH is the enemy.

    I deffinetly think convective, and forced air emitters drive this exchange more than radiant.

    My old house from the 50's was all radiant. It was actually a battle of to much humidity until mid winter, causing condensation on the 50's doublehungs with gasketed storms. I could drop it down by burning some good fires in the old masonary fireplaces. I would never drop below 30% RH never needed humidification. Maybe the house was an anomaly.
    Zman
  • moneypitfeeder
    moneypitfeeder Member Posts: 249
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    Hi snowmelt, we've been dealing with super dry, static filled days as well. My quick fix (many of my rad have flat tops) is to put pyrex bread pans full of water on my larger rads, and smaller glass dishes filled with water on my skinnier rads. I put them on the top at the supply valve end, and they add water to the air as they heat. I have to check them every day, but it is worth the inconvenience in my system. I'm working with 2 pipe steam and I keep the house between 68-71.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Snowmelt
    Snowmelt Member Posts: 1,416
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    I boiled water ad put a few fans on low to move the air around it did work, UI went from 16 % to 25% , i did order some humidifier from amazon, or should I say the wife did. I will give
    an update in the next two weeks.
  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    Not much need to blow it around. It'll find drier air rapidly.
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,607
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    Ahah, @Gordy knows his stuff. Humidity transfers almost instantly . Think of dry air as a sponge, it will pull moisture to it.

    Had a chilled water job once where we ran the air handlers at 54 supply and 44 return water. We were supposed to maintain this lab room at 70 deg and 50% RH. It wouldn't do it. The temp was ok....couldn't pull the humidity down to 50%.

    All the engineers were running around testing the air. I got a psyc chart and realized we needed colder water. The air handler coils needed to be below 50 deg. At 54 supply 44 return only half the coil was below the required dew point.

    Ran up two floors to the chiller and set the water temp down a few degrees. 1/2 an hour later when I got back to the space the humidity was where it was supposed to be. Couldn't believe it dropped that fast
    Gordy
  • ratio
    ratio Member Posts: 3,649
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    I met an engineer once who claimed that humidity moved through the air at the speed of sound. While I have no sound disproof (haha!), I am dubious. If humidity left, say, a pan, at the speed of sound, I would expect a wavefront, which failed to present.

    Am I wrong? Is he?

  • Gordy
    Gordy Member Posts: 9,546
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    I don't know about that one.

    All I know in a fairly open floor plan if I boil a pot of water on the stove i raised RH from 16% to 35% in the whole house in about 3 hours. No fans.

    wouldnt say speed of sound..........I can still hear :D