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why does it take so long to heat

newagedawnnewagedawn Posts: 549Member
in THE MAIN WALL
another professional hack job, what ever happened to the basics, i think this guy was asleep during piping 101
"The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
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Comments

  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,857Member
    What's your point? He's pumping away looks like only one zone. what's wrong with it? the only thing obvious on the heating side is lack of air vents and air scoop

    As an electrician I am more concerned with the electrical panel clearance with the copper pipe in front of it, hacked wiring and the flue pipe next to it
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  • Leon82Leon82 Posts: 616Member
    edited November 2017
    I think the flow check may be backwards maybe. If it's pumping I to the boiler
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  • lchmblchmb Posts: 2,932Member
    flowcheck is pointed properly.. As well as clearance to the panel I'd wonder about clearance on the vent pipe as it passes through wood. Then again I wonder if all that heat is good for the wiring in the box.. now the bx tucked into the conduit..that's awesome!!
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  • JUGHNEJUGHNE Posts: 5,715Member
    Does that pump have enough apples to open the old flow check above? Usually that may have had a B&G 100 with enough flow to open it fully. Also that pump might have a flow check in it?
    With only one zone do you need the flow check?
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  • Danny ScullyDanny Scully Posts: 1,184Member
    You know it’s not a steam boiler right @newagedawn? :lol: JK!
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  • CTOilHeatCTOilHeat Posts: 48Member
    I had a "slow heat" service call a few weeks ago on a boiler piped close to this. Nice newer crown boiler- Circulator was mounted on top. Direction of flow was INTO the boiler.

    Burner fires, boiler would reach low limit. Circ would start sending cold water right to the probe bringing the temp back under low limit shutting the circ back off.


    Ran all winter last year this way.
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  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,857Member
    edited November 2017
    If you blow the picture up you can see the pump is pulling out of the boiler. I don't see an issue with it.

    The flue pipe and panel and wiring . No Good And @JUGHNE is correct, one zone, no tankless...no need for a flowcheck

    I see this all the time people don't know what a flocheck is for. Some put them on every job .....just because
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  • Alan WelchAlan Welch Posts: 149Member
    Must be fun to service. Don't see why they didn't rotate boiler 180 degrees, set it closer to side wall , and have flow control valve not have to go in wrong direction to begin. Not reducing supply and return pipe size might help. No idea what heat load/ size of house is.
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  • newagedawnnewagedawn Posts: 549Member
    how about the supply and return being choked to 1" and back to 1" 1/4, thats really got to mess the GPM flow and slow the heat transfer way down, oh it will work just takes awhile,lol
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
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  • CTOilHeatCTOilHeat Posts: 48Member
    @EBEBRATT-Ed No issue with the one pictured. It works ok and I see ones like this pretty often. It reminded of the one I found pumping into the boiler. It was......... different, lol. I was very surprised the house got through a winter like it was.

    Flipped the pump around and it work fine.
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  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Posts: 1,579Member
    edited November 2017
    As far as the 1" goes, what is the boiler's output and what is the connected radiation and heat calc of the house? 1-1/4 won't help much if there is 60,000 btu of fin tube flowing at 6gpm.... I've piped up many boilers with 1" which is good for 10gpm or 100,000 btu/hr with our "standard 20 degree delta".
    Master electrician specialising in boiler and burner controls, multiple fuel systems, radiant system controls, building controls, and universal refrigeration tech.
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  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,857Member
    What @Solid_Fuel_Man said about pipe sizing is 100% correct. Trying to move more water than you have baseboard to dissipate or more water than the boiler has to input makes no sense
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  • newagedawnnewagedawn Posts: 549Member
    its an original primary secondary loop with diverter tee's and cast iron baseboard, and your telling me that if you choke 1 1/4 to 1" pipe it will work? please explain im confused, the original pipe had 1 1/4, me thinks the original designer knew what size pipe to put in, but the monkey who changed the boiler had no clue about heating or piping and choked it down
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
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  • newagedawnnewagedawn Posts: 549Member
    EBEBRATT-Ed said:

    If you blow the picture up you can see the pump is pulling out of the boiler. I don't see an issue with it.

    The flue pipe and panel and wiring . No Good And @JUGHNE is correct, one zone, no tankless...no need for a flowcheck

    I see this all the time people don't know what a flocheck is for. Some put them on every job .....just because

    are you for real????, no flow check???? what about in the winter when the t stat isnt calling for heat and the boiler is warm whats to stop the flow of hot water to cold????
    and yes your right the pump is pumping away from the tank,
    but i think this is not what true pumping away is sir????
    think about it in your minds eye!!!!
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
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  • Guy_WoollardGuy_Woollard Posts: 5Member
    I am curious to the explanation here, as I see some "housekeeping" items that I would change, but nothing stands out as to why the slow heating. Maybe I'm slipping....
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  • NoelNoel Posts: 170Member
    edited November 2017
    How many diverter tees and how long is the loop? What is the outgoing temperature minus the return water temperature when the boiler has run for a few minutes (Delta T)? How much radiation total is connected?
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  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    @newagedawn
    If there is a tankless coil, in use, Ed didn't catch that. If not, there is no reason for a flowchek. The change to 1", provided the circ will handle the added head, amounts to a change in velocity in that section of pipe, only.
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  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,857Member
    Yes @newagedawn I am for real.

    The expansion tank is mounted on the boiler return and the pump is on the supply pumping away. READ the Weil McLain literature and you will find that they show this exact method of piping in their installation manual for years.

    I don't see a tankless heater. If there is no tankless heater you DO NOT need a flow check. Do you know what a Flowcheck does?? It stops gravity flow. That's its only purpose (unless you have multiple zones) People that don't know what a flocheck does put them on every job.

    Why on earth would you want to stop gravity flow with only one zone and no tankess. Do you want to keep heat trapped in the boiler??

    The pipe size has to do with flow and is based on the boilers btu output. What size boiler is it 3 or 4 section?

    Check your baseboard. 1" pipe will handle 80,000btu/hour. That means you can handle about 133 feet of baseboard. Got more than that??
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  • newagedawnnewagedawn Posts: 549Member
    yes sir, you are the man, keep piping weil mclains way and you'll be very successful, by the way 1" pipe does about 104 ft of baseboard and this is not a baseboard system it's a classic primary/secondary system with diverter tee's and 1 1/4 supply, you can lead sheep to the slaughter, but you cant lead the slaughter to the sheep, that is all, thanks
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
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  • Danny ScullyDanny Scully Posts: 1,184Member
    edited November 2017
    Baseboard would just be the emitter type, not the system type. Are you sure it’s not just a monoflow system? I’m just curious @newagedawn, I know this post has gone in a different direction than intended.
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  • Paul48Paul48 Posts: 4,492Member
    @newagedawn

    I think everyone was under the mistaken belief, that you posted, trying to come up with reasons why it took so long to heat. That's the way the forum works. The input from many can usually solve a problem. If people post that they don't think something is causing a problem and you disagree........that should lead to discussion, not nastiness.
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  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,857Member
    @newagedawn ,

    a diverter tee, monoflow, one pipe system whatever you wan't to call it is not a primary secondary system
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  • HVACguyinMEHVACguyinME Posts: 23Member
    Wow, you posted on here and then can't take the criticism. What you are talking about is most likely a mono flow system. So assuming it is, 1 inch is perfectly fine. I have replaced many monoflow systems that had 1-1/4 and replaced with 1 inch. The "old days" heating guys would go big or go home.
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  • newagedawnnewagedawn Posts: 549Member
    edited November 2017
    lol, happy thanksgiving
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
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  • FormerlyFormerly Posts: 70Member
    sometimes simple is good - being it's a monoflo system, maybe they simply forgot to bleed out the rads and some are airlocked? Sometimes its the simple things...that get overlooked.
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  • unclejohnunclejohn Posts: 1,374Member
    How many of the diverter tee's have been removed and by-pass not installed.
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