How much heat will be lost in a room by shifting the exposed steam risers fully into the wall?

bipbap

I'm getting different opinions from contractors about our plan to bury two of our steam risers in the kitchen wall.
One guy says we will lose a lot of our heat for that room and the other says you don't get much heat out of a riser anyway.
We are only planning to shift them into the wall so we can put cabinets against those walls.
It's a one-pipe steam system if that helps.
Thanks for the steam pro advice!

MilanD

This should help.

Jamie Hall

Use the appropriate numbers from @MilanD 's chart. The square feet you get will be the effective "EDR" of the pipes. Multiply that by 240 BTUh and you get the amount of heat those pipes would give you.

For example, if it 1 1/2 inch pipe, you would end up with about 1000 BTUh for an eight foot length. Which is, very roughly, the same as 3 100 watt bulbs.

I'd be much more concerned, however, about the effect on the radiators which the pipes feed. Unless you put insulation between them and the cold outside, it will slow them down. So... put some insulation in there!

bipbap

Ok yes, your example is probably almost exactly what we have so we're talking about a very small amount of heat given off.
Thats very good to know- I'm always amazed how there are two totally different opinions on something like this.

And very good idea to insulate.
Yes they would be moving into a gap between exterior 3-wythe brick walls and the interior sheetrock. So just fiberglass pipe insulation on those before sealing in the wall?

Jamie Hall

bipbap said:

... So just fiberglass pipe insulation on those before sealing in the wall?

That ought to work just fine.

R Dougan

on pg. 72 it gives the BTU/hr heat loss of steel pipe. This heat will now be inside the wall. (insulation will help.)

bipbap

I told the contractor that the steam riser (1.5" pipe and about 8' tall) just gives off about three 100-watt lightbulbs worth of heat and he laughed at me like I was crazy.
It's cold in New York and it does seem hard to believe because those risers are cranking hot.
Does that really seem right?

KC_Jones

> @bipbap said:
> I told the contractor that the steam riser (1.5" pipe and about 8' tall) just gives off about three 100-watt lightbulbs worth of heat and he laughed at me like I was crazy.
> It's cold in New York and it does seem hard to believe because those risers are cranking hot.
> Does that really seem right?

Unless you think math lies it's correct. Ask him to run the numbers and tell you exactly (with math) how many BTU's that pipe emits. If he is worth anything to work on steam he should easily be able to run those calculations.

100 watts is about 341 BTU, 3 of them would be 1023 BTU...roughly speaking.

Dave0176

I think 1-1/2 pipe is .77 EDR per ft

Fred

That's about right, maybe 4 light bulbs, but that is per riser so if you have two, it would be about 6 to 8, 100 watt light bulbs.

JUGHNE

It is pretty to keep your hand wrapped around a 100 watt bulb when it is on.
I have a 5' X 5' half bath in the middle of my house with 4 60 watt bulbs, there is no other heat in that room. In the winter if I want to be warm in there I turn the lights on a little before visiting. Just enough to make a difference....bear in mind that our full bath is kept at 74 with radiant floors and walls.

So there is heat delivered but if you have some other rads there you will not miss it. But if that was your sole source it is something to think about.

Also a good exercise in realizing how much the standard old light bulb adds load to the AC system.
I might put LED's in for summer usage just to be green.

bipbap

Yeah those 2 risers are the only heat in an open concept kitchen (with a wall of windows) though that room is fully open to the living room and dining room which have one radiator in each.
Either way I trust math but still gotta put them in the wall so I'll have to figure out how to make up for that lost heat.

KC_Jones

You need heat in that kitchen or you are going to be very disappointed.

Part of any real remodel plan is how the space will be heated. The plan should never be to eliminate the heat.

Do a heatloss of the space and figure out what you need. I retract my previous comments, burying those pipes with no other heat will have a significant impact.

I think most of us thought (by your comments) there was heat and the pipes were extra.

CKNJ

Agree with KC_Jones! The house I bought had been remodeled. The not very bright people removed the radiator from the kitchen and lucky for me left it in the garage. It wasn't "cold" in that kitchen but it was much cooler than the rest of the floor. I had that radiator put back in and it is a world of difference. Never remove radiator from a kitchen!

bipbap

Yeah ok I hear you guys. I think we'll probably try to get a radiator back in there then.

PinkTavo

Check out if there are any supply lines that run under thru the kitchen. Our kitchen rad was removed...way before we bought our place...and the supply line that runs directly below the kitchen just out from the sink cabinets heats the floor just like it had embedded radiant. Nice for standing with bare feet and looking out the window in the morning. The pipe is insulated too. Doesn't hurt that the boiler room is located under a portion of the kitchen also! Point is....you may not need to add the rad back in if you are lucky.

bipbap

Good idea.
To be honest, there are two runs of steam mains in the basement running right under the kitchen.
If I took off the pipe insulation and the basement ceiling drywal, I bet they'd work like radiant heat too.
My only worry with that is how my new wide plank wood floors would like that, as the type we have were not recommended for radiant heat.
And also I'd be uninsulating the steam mains in basement so maybe losing some efficiency?

j a_2

Of course putting the pipes in the wall will take away some comfort...simply just install a radiator in the kitchen...Don’t over think it. Jmo

mikeg2015

Just give up a little cabinet space and put a radiator under a counter. You can box it in with radiant barrier (with a 1" air gap around it) then have a cover made if you want, or paint the radiator to make it a neat accent piece. A good interior remodel of a old home blends old and new nicely IMO. Just modernizing everything is sort of lazy and 10 years later it will look dated. A good remodel lats for decades.