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a damn steam shame

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SeanBeans
SeanBeans Member Posts: 520
so i don't work in residential anymore. but i keep in touch with all of my ex co workers from the 2 companies i worked for.

my helper from the company i worked for most recently hit me up and told me he was doing a steamer in morristown NJ. he was excited because he gets to work on steam and we always had a lot of fun changing them out.. but he was also nervous because he was going on the job with a Lead who has never done steam and doesn't know the first thing about steam..

i sent him a message back and told him to tell the Lead to just look in the book and it tells you the manufacture specs and he should be fine.

4 DAYS ON THE JOB AND I GET THESE PICTURES

my helper told me that the Lead thinks the way i did steam boilers was "stupid"
and the Lead wouldn't take any advice from my helper (which would have been sound advice)

the homeowner obviously doesn't know anything is wrong with this install..
part of me wants to go there and tell this homeowner that everything is wrong.. and should be torn out and did correctly..but is that out of my place?

4 days =(

what to do? do i sit here and accept the fact that this HUGE company out of east brunswick totally screwed this customer? do i accept the fact that this isn't the 1st and 100% won't be the last homeowner who is taken advantage of and left with a mess of a boiler?













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Comments

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,839
    edited September 2017
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    1. He knows how to put pipe together
    2. He can't read or is too lazy to read
    3. He's a know-it-all who knows everything

    Maybe he should convert the house to hot water because it's not going to work too well the way it is for steam.

    If you get involved your likely to get your (former) helper fired. No win situation
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,919
    edited September 2017
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    They give pictures to go by........

    And people can't do it.

    My opinion?
    Tell the homeowner. They paid for a professional to properly install a steam boiler. Not for a child to have play time in their basement, and that's what this is.






    Here's to the "Lead" whatever that is.






    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    kcopprationewagedawnPaul S_3
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
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    You always make me smile Chris...lol....
    As to the job.....the homeowner will be on this site shortly once the banging starts...
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

    ChrisJnewagedawnPaul S_3RomanGK_26986764589
  • EzzyT
    EzzyT Member Posts: 1,297
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    And would be real shame if it's also oversized.
    E-Travis Mechanical LLC
    Etravismechanical@gmail.com
    201-887-8856
    newagedawnRomanGK_26986764589
  • SeanBeans
    SeanBeans Member Posts: 520
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    probably is oversized, they size their steam boilers by the square footage of the house.
    newagedawn
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,919
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    SeanBeans said:

    probably is oversized, they size their steam boilers by the square footage of the house.

    So not only can they not read pictures, they also size boilers like it's the 1950s. Interesting.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • SeanBeans
    SeanBeans Member Posts: 520
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    i printed the chapter from TLAOSH about sizing steam boilers and handed it to the Sales Director and he said that he knew thats how they should size them but all the salesman won't do it.....

    not sure if that is copyright infringement! but it got thrown in the garbage anyway
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,888
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    Looks like he can't use a tape measure as well. Awful lot of couplings and short nips.
    He wasn't dumb enough to pipe it in copper to make it easier for the next crew to cut it out.
    SeanBeans
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,919
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    HVACNUT said:

    Looks like he can't use a tape measure as well. Awful lot of couplings and short nips.

    He wasn't dumb enough to pipe it in copper to make it easier for the next crew to cut it out.

    I'd rather a properly sized steamer, properly piped, all in copper over that disaster. When done right copper can last, and at least it'd actually heat the house correctly.

    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    kcopp
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,429
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    All together now...
  • KC_Jones
    KC_Jones Member Posts: 5,750
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    I'm a bit of a jerk so take my comments with that grain of salt. If this customers daughter was raped would you tell them?

    Why should it matter if the rape was their money instead of their daughter? Not only would I tell the customer, I would send them a link to this thread and tell them I am more than willing to give them an itemized list of all the things wrong.

    That needs a complete do over I can't see anything that's correct.

    Oh I would also send a link to this thread to the installer. Seriously they need to ether check the ego, or never touch steam again....ever. I wouldn't let that guy dust my steam boiler.

    And the sizing....that just blows my mind.

    It's sad that "professionals" don't want to do good work.
    2014 Weil Mclain EG-40
    EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Boiler Control
    Boiler pictures updated 2/21/15
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
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    i used to work for a first class petty officer from Texas who used to use an expression that i still use to this day, ''looks like a bulls ****, sewed up with a log chain''.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,839
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    I am assuming @SeanBeans former helper took the pictures and sent them to @SeanBeans.

    If anything come of this the poor helper will lose his job. Maybe he has a family. He did nothing wrong, wanted to do the right job but HAD to listen to his boss.

    as @gerry gill said the customer will surface here by ........November

    Better to let this ride IMHO

    kcopp
  • MilanD
    MilanD Member Posts: 1,160
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    Wow.
  • Zman
    Zman Member Posts: 7,606
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    You cannot stop all butchered jobs. Sometimes I think it is as much the GC's and owner's fault because they insist on beating down good contractor's pricing. This is what you are left with...

    As for your dilemma, you obviously care about your formal helper and I respect that tremendously. You should encourage him to seek out a better employer. No better time to look for a job than when you already have one...
    "If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
    Albert Einstein
    Ironman
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,919
    edited September 2017
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    This isn't the home owners fault. That mess cost every bit as much as doing it right

    It's the contractor's job to know how to do work he agreed to regardless of price. Saying its anyone else's fault is ridiculous. He clearly had no business taking on a steam job.


    I mean.....he could've opened the book and looked at the pictures......
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    newagedawn
  • newagedawn
    newagedawn Member Posts: 586
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    what are we gonna do with plumbers???,.!!!,...lol
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
    Charlie from wmass
  • ChrisJ
    ChrisJ Member Posts: 15,919
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    what are we gonna do with plumbers???,.!!!,...lol

    Plenty of good plumbers out there. There's a guy in my town who charges very little and his work isn't necessarily the best, but it works and I'd trust him to pipe a steamer any day.

    Sadly, it's not the title, or the cost that seems to indicate if someone will do the job right or not.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
    newagedawn
  • Ironman
    Ironman Member Posts: 7,399
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    @SeanBeans

    You could ANONYMOUSLY mail this to the owner and ask him if what he got looks anything like it:



    Bob Boan
    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
    KC_Jonesnewagedawn
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,333
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    @newagedawn would you like to explain to me what you mean by that plumbers comment?
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,429
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    It means he put his foot in his mouth @Charlie from wmass :wink: Plumbers unite! :lol:
    Charlie from wmassdelta T
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,333
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    To the original post. At least you'll have all the right parts to do it correctly all you have to do is disassemble the erector set and reassemble it the way the directions call for
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,839
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    LOL. I agree with @Zman . The helper should get out of their while the getting is good. Times are pretty good right now, plenty of work. The helper obviously cares about doing the job right which is more than I can say for the installer.

    As for the "PLUMBERS" comment. I am not one. I am a union pipefitter. We are "taught" to hate plumbers, haha lol.

    Personally I don't care who does the job. Plumber, pipefitter, gasfitter, oil burner tech etc.

    One criteria. Do the job right!!!!.....and must be able to read....which this installer obviously can't do.
    newagedawn
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,429
    edited September 2017
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    For a non-union, self-employed business owner/operator such as my self and @Charlie from wmass, the term "plumber" encompasses all the titles you have used @EBEBRATT-Ed. We are PLUMBERS: pipefitters, gasfitters, oil burner techs etc. Throw salesman, manager, and accountant into the mix and you can see why it's offensive. I stand with you @Charlie from wmass!
    Charlie from wmassdelta T
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,333
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    I was raised by a former Union plumber who became self-employed. I'm still very pro-union but we all know the joke in the plumbers and pipefitters Union in most areas and Back In My Father's Day applied even in Massachusetts. Do you know the difference between a barber and a pipefitter? A barber needs a license
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • bob_46
    bob_46 Member Posts: 813
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    In a combination local to decide which apprentices become plumbers and which become fitters they put all of them in a pool full of **** up to their necks. A big guy with a 4x4 comes and swings it over the surface, those that duck become plumbers .

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

    HVACNUTMilanDhydro_newbie
  • MarkS
    MarkS Member Posts: 75
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    Does this win the 2017 "Most Things Wrong With an Install" award?
    1890 near-vapor one pipe steam system | Operating pressure: 0.25 oz | 607 sf EDR
    Midco LNB-250 Modulating Gas Burner | EcoSteam ES-50 modulating controls | 70 to 300 MBH |
    3009 sf | 3 floors | 14 radiators | Utica SFE boiler | 4 mains, 135 ft | Gorton & B&J Big Mouth vents
    newagedawn
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,333
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    @MarkS it's not even close
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • BobC
    BobC Member Posts: 5,481
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    It's really a shame to see all the work that went into that abortion, he could have done it right with less labor - if he was willing to read TFM!

    Bob
    Smith G8-3 with EZ Gas @ 90,000 BTU, Single pipe steam
    Vaporstat with a 12oz cut-out and 4oz cut-in
    3PSI gauge
    Charlie from wmass
  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,839
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    @Danny Scully my comments certainly meant no disrespect to plumbers, it was meant to come across in a joking way. Sorry it sounded that way.
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,333
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    @EBEBRATT-Ed what am I chopped liver? I got feelings too!
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Danny Scully
    Danny Scully Member Posts: 1,429
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    @EBEBRATT-Ed I didn't mean your comment was offensive, but a previous one. But now it's seems everyone is joking about it so I don't know where I stand :lol:
  • bob_46
    bob_46 Member Posts: 813
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    Plumbers protect the health of the nation , fitters just stick it in the hole and turn it to the right.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,333
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    @Danny Scully I'm still offended by the original plumber slam.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,333
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    Your buddies and your family can sling jokes at you. And I can take all the plumbers jokes thrown at me by the pipefitters if they're thrown directly at me not at my trade in general. I still haven't heard from @newagedawn
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • newagedawn
    newagedawn Member Posts: 586
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    Your buddies and your family can sling jokes at you. And I can take all the plumbers jokes thrown at me by the pipefitters if they're thrown directly at me not at my trade in general. I still haven't heard from @newagedawn

    hello my friend, im sorry if you got offended by my plumber comment, i will say it again sorry if i offended you, it was a poke in fun, and now i will qualify my comment, in my area of CT there are MANY plumbers that install boilers and do the exact same thing this bozo did, take the customers money and leave them holding the broken bag, thinking he, she or it did a good job, and i have actually heard plumbers say i dont care its not my house and laugh, leaving the clean up and bad news to the customer and me, when the customer asks me why the brand new heating system doesnt seem to be working and cant seem to find the plumber who installed it, so in good conscience i have to tell them what the plumber just did to them. now, you will please forgive me my friend if I make a joke about plumbers and yes in general cause i can tell stories from the past 25 yrs of the NON professional things plumbers do and yes could be, burner tech, sales rep, manager, whoever in this case just happens to be a plumber. so i hope this explains my comment to you my friend, peace out, as this is all you will get from me, thanks
    "The bitter taste of a poor install lasts far longer than the JOY of the lowest price"
  • Erin Holohan Haskell
    Erin Holohan Haskell Member, Moderator, Administrator Posts: 2,346
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    Thanks for working this out, guys.

    President
    HeatingHelp.com

    newagedawn
  • SeanBeans
    SeanBeans Member Posts: 520
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    I guess i have to say thay a plumber didnt do this install.

    Just a HVAC installer who got thrown into the fire but also didnt take advice to read the book.
    newagedawnCharlie from wmass
  • j a_2
    j a_2 Member Posts: 1,801
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    The plumbers take a lot of hits on this site....the reason it used to really bother me is I advertised on this site as a plumber who did steam pretty much exclusively...Wanna be guys were the worst, the ones with limited skills and overnight, online special certifications. And all kinds of signs on there beach wagons saying they were plumbers of such....
    newagedawnCharlie from wmass
  • HVACNUT
    HVACNUT Member Posts: 5,888
    edited September 2017
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    One love
    One heart
    Let's get together and feel alright

    No matter your label, we are the backbone of society. Everything would go to **** if we all took off the same week.

    Those who say they know it all, don't know anything.

    Those who put their heart, as well as their brain into their work don't expect praise, and can accept critique as a lesson learned.

    To the know it alls.
    Nothing is so firmly believed as that which is least unknown - Nietzsche
    Charlie from wmassj a_2CTOilHeat