Off topic = Gas BBQ burner

ChrisJ

Hi all,

Hoping to get some opinions, and do some learning.
Mainly hoping @captainco and @Tim McElwain will chime in as well.

I've got a Weber 3 burner grill that doesn't seem to cook evenly and I'm thinking it may just be the nature of the beast.

Mine came setup for natural gas from the factory, which appears to just mean it has no regulator, and the jets are sized at #53 for each burner. The rating is 7" input and 35,000 BTU/H total.

My system is running at 6 to 6.5" WC, which according to the charts is still plenty for a #53 jet on these size burners.

Below is a drawing of the 3 burner tubes which are hollow with holes cut on one side of each tube for the flame. There's an air inlet with a shutter and a fine mesh screen a the inlet of each tube where the jet enters. On the right side there's a small crossover tube connected between the two outer burners used to light the burners. It fits loosely into a hole in each burner and the center burner simply slides into a bracket on it, no actual connection for fuel.




The issue is, for some reason the left side of the grill cooks much hotter than the right side and I don't think it's just because of the small crossover tube. I just replaced the burner tubes and checked the jets. The overall even-ness of the heat hasn't really changed so I'm assuming it's the nature of the beast. It's been this way since I bought it in 2012.

That said, what is the cause of this? Does the inlet side of the burners put out less fuel by nature, similar to forced air ductwork at higher velocities having greater pressure near the ends?

Does it suggest the jets are too small, too large? Neither?

Is there any way to improve this? I've considered buying larger jets and installing an appliance regulator to run at 3.5" , but I don't know if it would have any effect on this or not.

I'm mainly just curious why this is, being the burner tubes appear to be made the same all the way across I don't see why one side would burn hotter than the other. It's also odd the side furthest from the fuel source is the hottest. Or, perhaps this is to be expected?

ChrisJ

Even better, here's pictures of the actual burner tubes.

Suzook

There are air/fuel adjustments on the ends of those tubes. Try adjusting the end one.

ChrisJ

Suzook said:

There are air/fuel adjustments on the ends of those tubes. Try adjusting the end one.

I think you mis-understood.

The cool side, is on the right side, which is the side all 3 air adjustments are on. Not just over one burner.

ChrisJ

ratio

That's interesting. Can you feel if there is more gas leaving the further holes than the nearer ones? Do the flames look taller maybe? I know that when our field tards put a takeoff on the end cap of a duct run I always have to go back & add a damper or all the air will try and leave through that end air device. Maybe something similar is happening here. The holes in the burner tube might need to change size as they progress from one end of the tube to the other.

Maybe. I dunno.

Suzook

Oh, That's a strange arangement. Mine is different. Probably too much pressure. Pushing more gas at the end???

JUGHNE

That would be my guess....lower the pressure with reg.

Gordy

Technically it shouldn't be any different than the burner tubes on a boiler. However every gas grill I have ever owned Weber, jenn- air, and others has always been cooler to the front of the grill/burners. My jenn-air which doesn't have a cross over tube, the cast brass burners were hotter to the back.

The thing is the cross over tube has holes so you will be hotter to the back than the front. It's like a forth burner in your case.

It's a grill, nature of the beast.

ratio

My kitchen stove heats evenly...

ChrisJ

ratio said:

My kitchen stove heats evenly...

Eeeeeeeew!

ChrisJ

Suzook said:

Oh, That's a strange arangement. Mine is different. Probably too much pressure. Pushing more gas at the end???

JUGHNE said:

That would be my guess....lower the pressure with reg.

That's the thing though.
They rated it for 7" WC, and I'm at 6.5" WC. If I lower the pressure I'll have less heat overall and I don't want that either.

ratio

Maybe not enough pressure? To get gas evenly out all the holes in the burner tube you've got to "pressurize" the tube, & provide enough volume of gas so that all the holes (= orifices) can flow the same amount of gas to heat evenly. My theory is that the volume is low due to the low gas pressure (run in to this ALL the time at work), starving the nearer end of the burners.

The solution is obviously a booster pump to bring you gas pressure up to spec. I order this a lot at work.

ChrisJ

ratio said:

Maybe not enough pressure? To get gas evenly out all the holes in the burner tube you've got to "pressurize" the tube, & provide enough volume of gas so that all the holes (= orifices) can flow the same amount of gas to heat evenly. My theory is that the volume is low due to the low gas pressure (run in to this ALL the time at work), starving the nearer end of the burners.

The solution is obviously a booster pump to bring you gas pressure up to spec. I order this a lot at work.

Are you saying the ends opposite of the orifices get starved, or the same side as the orifices does?

Would 0.5" WC make that big of a difference? And if it needs more pressure, why not just install larger orifices rather than use a booster pump?

ratio

My experience with ductwork is that the "fills up" from the far end to the near end. IOW, all else being equal, with say 6 taps all sized the same, the static pressure will be highest at the tap furthest from the blower. Maybe something similar is happening here.

And the booster pump is a joke, kind of like asking the crane operator to rotate the hook. Funny, right?

Also, keep in mind that the orifices control volume, not pressure. But maybe that is what you need. IDK, I'm just a washed up electrician.

FranklinD

My grill (a Menards-grade propane unit) does the same thing. The left side does not heat nearly as well as the right side. It has the older style burners, not tubes. The flames side to side sure LOOK the same, but boy do they cook differently. Haven't figured it out yet.

bob_46

Secondary air .

ChrisJ

bob said:

Secondary air .

Interesting.....
So if the left side gets more air, it could easily burn hotter than the right side?

I should take a look and see what's around as far as openings.

Harvey Ramer

How is the grill drafted? Most are out the back. Mine is. It burns hotter in the back because it gets better draft, more combustion air. My burner tubes run from front to back.

But seriously Chris! This is an advantage. You can have a rare and a medium steak done at the same time.
Know your grill!

ChrisJ

Harvey Ramer said:

How is the grill drafted? Most are out the back. Mine is. It burns hotter in the back because it gets better draft, more combustion air. My burner tubes run from front to back.



But seriously Chris! This is an advantage. You can have a rare and a medium steak done at the same time.

Know your grill!

Same thing, out the back.
What's interesting is the original design of this grill was the Weber Genesis back in the 90s and early 2000s. That had a drip pan under it with a hole in the center. This, which is a Spirit (I think made to use up the old Genesis parts) has the pan offset to the left side and the hole is in the left side. This is the side that burns hottest, maybe getting better air through that hole? By hole, I'm talking 2x2 or 3x3" cutout, not a tiny hole.



I'm lighting up the 22" charcoal Weber right now to cook my self some burgers. There's many things I'm starting to prefer about the charcoal, including even, or, if intentional, uneven cooking.

It just seemed bizarre to me that the burner tubes heated uneven like this and I was wondering if it was similar to how ducts perform at higher velocities. Especially when I look at the tubes and they look the same all the way across. Like @ratio said. My understanding with ductwork is the higher velocities cause the air to pass by takeoffs too quick starving them. And apparently, under extreme conditions, takeoffs in the beginning of the duct can actually end up under a negative pressure.

I guess it can be the same with burner tubes. Or, maybe it's that offset drip pan. That'd be really interesting. Or maybe a combination of both.

ChrisJ

@Harvey Ramer What kind of grill are you using? Now I'm curious.

I've got the nat gas 3 burner Weber Spirit and 3 Weber charcoal grills, had 4 but gave one away last year.

JUGHNE

Many burner tubes taper in diameter as the length advances. Squeeze the gas/air to come out of the holes at the same rate as it gets to the back of the burner compartment.
Probably for this very reason.

I am thinking that gas grills are a pretty competitive business and they have to go with what works most of the time. Only someone like you has time to over-analyze the situation, (and watch jiggle U-tubes BTY). You just need to drink more beer before grilling.
If I ever get into my grill sitting in the back patio I will now have to dissect the operation.....thanks to you

Seriously, I did hear some meat grilling guru discussing steaks....he says do not just throw them on the hottest spot, but to pre warm them on a medium temp portion of the grill. Maybe he designed your grill operation.

ChrisJ

From tonight


https://youtu.be/QOCJ5RpcZ0I


You can even hear the Amana/Goodman running in the backround......kind of. It's actually incredibly quiet.

Gordy

JUGHNE said:

Many burner tubes taper in diameter as the length advances. Squeeze the gas/air to come out of the holes at the same rate as it gets to the back of the burner compartment.
Probably for this very reason.

I am thinking that gas grills are a pretty competitive business and they have to go with what works most of the time. Only someone like you has time to over-analyze the situation, (and watch jiggle U-tubes BTY). You just need to drink more beer before grilling.
If I ever get into my grill sitting in the back patio I will now have to dissect the operation.....thanks to you

Seriously, I did hear some meat grilling guru discussing steaks....he says do not just throw them on the hottest spot, but to pre warm them on a medium temp portion of the grill. Maybe he designed your grill operation.

Never put red meat from fridge to grill NEVER!

Paul48

There's barbecuing, and then there's cooking on a gas grill. The latter has always been lost on me. I'll take my kettle grill any day.

JUGHNE

We buy a whole beef about once a year.
It is free range, completely grass fed.
Very dry and lean.
You have to cook the roasts in a slow crock pot.
Steaks are baked in the oven.
Cut all with a fork after that.

We just acquired our first free range hog.
Just went into the freezer.
May be good??
A lot of pig products have the confinement building aroma as they are cooked. Puts you off pretty quickly.

EBEBRATT-Ed

@ChrisJ , look at this as an opportunity!!.

Invent and patent a "gas grill conveyor belt" It will keep the food rotating while it cooks

ChrisJ

Paul48 said:

There's barbecuing, and then there's cooking on a gas grill. The latter has always been lost on me. I'll take my kettle grill any day.

I see this a lot on some groups.
A gas grill cooks food a whole lot better than a frying pan or an oven.

A gas grill is in between charcoal / wood and the kitchen stove.

There's times after working for 12-14 hours I don't want to deal with charcoal. So, I fire up the gas grill.

There's days I want a better product, so I do charcoal. Last night I did charcoal even though I didn't get home until 8PM. I was just in the mood for it.

Honestly. someone who truly loves grilling should be able to get superb results from either.

ChrisJ

Gordy said:

JUGHNE said:

Many burner tubes taper in diameter as the length advances. Squeeze the gas/air to come out of the holes at the same rate as it gets to the back of the burner compartment.
Probably for this very reason.

I am thinking that gas grills are a pretty competitive business and they have to go with what works most of the time. Only someone like you has time to over-analyze the situation, (and watch jiggle U-tubes BTY). You just need to drink more beer before grilling.
If I ever get into my grill sitting in the back patio I will now have to dissect the operation.....thanks to you

Seriously, I did hear some meat grilling guru discussing steaks....he says do not just throw them on the hottest spot, but to pre warm them on a medium temp portion of the grill. Maybe he designed your grill operation.

Never put red meat from fridge to grill NEVER!

Why is this?
It's certainly news to me.

P.S. if you ask for a well done beef product in my house I'll kindly ask you to leave. This includes hamburgers. My burgers last night were medium rare. Just how I like them. Medium is ok, above that forget it.

Gordy

ChrisJ said:

Gordy said:

JUGHNE said:

Many burner tubes taper in diameter as the length advances. Squeeze the gas/air to come out of the holes at the same rate as it gets to the back of the burner compartment.
Probably for this very reason.

I am thinking that gas grills are a pretty competitive business and they have to go with what works most of the time. Only someone like you has time to over-analyze the situation, (and watch jiggle U-tubes BTY). You just need to drink more beer before grilling.
If I ever get into my grill sitting in the back patio I will now have to dissect the operation.....thanks to you

Seriously, I did hear some meat grilling guru discussing steaks....he says do not just throw them on the hottest spot, but to pre warm them on a medium temp portion of the grill. Maybe he designed your grill operation.

Never put red meat from fridge to grill NEVER!

Why is this?
It's certainly news to me.

P.S. if you ask for a well done beef product in my house I'll kindly ask you to leave. This includes hamburgers. My burgers last night were medium rare. Just how I like them. Medium is ok, above that forget it.

Nothing above a medium rare at my house also. Creamated is out of the question. My now deceased father, and father in law well Donets that was always a tough day.....literally. As to the not fridge to grill better, and faster results. I season leave on the counter until maybe 20 degrees below room temp. I do it with pork also. Chicken no.

Harvey Ramer

@ChrisJ I have no idea what kind of grill I have. It's a cheapo from BJ's. But it makes just as good food as your Weber. Guarraunteed.

Paul48

ChrisJ said:

Paul48 said:

There's barbecuing, and then there's cooking on a gas grill. The latter has always been lost on me. I'll take my kettle grill any day.

I see this a lot on some groups.
A gas grill cooks food a whole lot better than a frying pan or an oven.

A gas grill is in between charcoal / wood and the kitchen stove.

There's times after working for 12-14 hours I don't want to deal with charcoal. So, I fire up the gas grill.

There's days I want a better product, so I do charcoal. Last night I did charcoal even though I didn't get home until 8PM. I was just in the mood for it.

Honestly. someone who truly loves grilling should be able to get superb results from either.

Thank you.......You just said the same as me, only using more words.

Gordy

Harvey Ramer said:

@ChrisJ I have no idea what kind of grill I have. It's a cheapo from BJ's. But it makes just as good food as your Weber. Guarraunteed.

Flame, meat, a good cook, and some beers.

Paul48

My preference for charcoal is just my personal opinion. Some people don't have the time for it. At the end of a long day, the extra half an hour, seems very long.

ChrisJ

Paul48 said:

My preference for charcoal is just my personal opinion. Some people don't have the time for it. At the end of a long day, the extra half an hour, seems very long.

Using nothing more than a chimney I can be cooking over charcoal in 15 minutes.

Paul48

OK.......At the end of a long day, the extra 15 minutes, seems very long.

ChrisJ

Paul48 said:

OK.......At the end of a long day, the extra 15 minutes, seems very long.

Yes.
After working 14 hours and getting home and just wanting to eat, 15 minutes is a sizable amount.

Not to mention packing the chimney, filling it, lighting it, dumping the coals, spreading them out, letting them stabilize etc is more work not even including time.

I don't care who you are, 14 hours is a long day and any added time or work on top of it while trying to cook your family dinner is unacceptable.

Paul48

I work a 12 hour schedule. I'll cook on my days off, but thankfully, my wife cooks when I'm working. What ever is on the plate when I get home, is just fine.

ChrisJ

Paul48 said:

I work a 12 hour schedule. I'll cook on my days off, but thankfully, my wife cooks when I'm working. What ever is on the plate when I get home, is just fine.

I usually end up cooking for everyone. Sometimes the wife will cook, but she flat out won't use charcoal.

On my days off it's easy, but I cook pretty much all meat outside on one of the grills. Our stove is used to boil water (potatoes, pasta etc) and cook eggs, not much else.

Roast beef on a rotissori when it was almost 0F outside.



Chicken cooked in the middle of a storm that resulted in 28" of snow.




I'm cooking pork ribs over charcoal as we speak.

ratio

@ChrisJ, now I'm hungry again!

ChrisJ

ratio said:

@ChrisJ, now I'm hungry again!

I'm stuffed.