"Octopus" gravity furnace/boiler!

donaldmc

Here's one I haven't seen before!
I'm visiting a friend near Colgate in upstate New York, he asked me to look at his attic expansion tank.
It was leaking, obviously it needed to be replaced.
I went down to see the boiler because I was seeing radiators and air ducts all over the house and found this!
I've never seen one before !
Check out the pictures.....

Anyone know of an 'off the shelf' open expansion tank for a gravity system?

ChrisJ

Wait.


What?

That does both hot air AND hot water?

donaldmc

Yup! Both.....

bob_46

Interesting . Maybe instead of hydro-air we should be looking at air-hydro. A furnace is cheaper than a boiler, just stick a coil on it.

STEVEusaPA

Save that door, and the piece above it!

JUGHNE

Do the CI radiators get hot when the heat is on?
Are there actually any pipes connected to the furnace?
What heats the domestic water for the bathroom/kit?

Perhaps, just perhaps, the old rad system is abandoned.
The boiler was removed and replaced with forced air.
The expansion tank in the attic still has the cold water feed connected and the valve that should have been shut when the boiler was decommissioned is allowing cold water to seep thru and filling the leaky tank. Just a WAG

Jamie Hall

I have one just like that in the basement of the main house I care for. Looks almost the same! Except that mine is rusted out, and not in use any more... ask @Charlie from wmass -- he's seen it.

ChrisJ

JUGHNE said:

Do the CI radiators get hot when the heat is on?
Are there actually any pipes connected to the furnace?
What heats the domestic water for the bathroom/kit?

Perhaps, just perhaps, the old rad system is abandoned.
The boiler was removed and replaced with forced air.
The expansion tank in the attic still has the cold water feed connected and the valve that should have been shut when the boiler was decommissioned is allowing cold water to seep thru and filling the leaky tank. Just a WAG

There be pipes going into the sides of that furnace if you look closely.

ratio

They shore don't make 'em like that ennymor.

kcopp

That's a cross between a Rube Goldberg and Frankenstein's Monster.....

Jamie Hall

ratio said:

They shore don't make 'em like that ennymor.

There are times when even I will allow as to how some progress has been made, and is good! Though in defence of those old monsters, I would point out that they needed no power to operate at all -- just a strong back and some skill at making the fire go.

EBEBRATT-Ed

You could get a plain steel compression tank and use it (if you can find one with a tapping on top for a vent)

HVACNUT

The original owner must have been the envy of the town in 1908.

ChrisJ

HVACNUT said:

The original owner must have been the envy of the town in 1908.

Styling to me, screams 1930s-1940s.

jumper

Wish I had thought of combined hot water & air heating. Steam and air may be an even better idea. Think of the B dimension one could accomplish.

ratio

So, an 80 year lifespan. Hmmm. What residential unit coming off the assembly line today will have an 80 year lifespan? Judging by the unit's I've seen the most of, you'd need maybe 5 to get to that lifetime. Think they'd save enough fuel over 80 years to replace it four additional times?

ChrisJ

ratio said:

So, an 80 year lifespan. Hmmm. What residential unit coming off the assembly line today will have an 80 year lifespan? Judging by the unit's I've seen the most of, you'd need maybe 5 to get to that lifetime. Think they'd save enough fuel over 80 years to replace it four additional times?

No, that's been my argument all along but I seem to be all alone in that suspicion.

ratio

ChrisJ said:

ratio said:

Think they'd save enough fuel over 80 years to replace it four additional times?

No, that's been my argument all along but I seem to be all alone in that suspicion.

Not all alone. I also see it as Pretty D@mned Obvious that moving costs around falls more under the heading "sleight of hand", and not necessarily pure efficiency. But my observations are more philosophical than economic in nature.

Jamie Hall

ChrisJ said:

ratio said:

So, an 80 year lifespan. Hmmm. What residential unit coming off the assembly line today will have an 80 year lifespan? Judging by the unit's I've seen the most of, you'd need maybe 5 to get to that lifetime. Think they'd save enough fuel over 80 years to replace it four additional times?

No, that's been my argument all along but I seem to be all alone in that suspicion.

You're certainly not alone, @ChrisJ -- I feel exactly the same way. And sometimes even say so... !

JUGHNE

I have been gone for 2 days.
The 3 questions I asked have not been answered by the OP.
I see the pipes but are then just hanging abandoned or actually connected.
Perhaps a domestic HW pre-heat coil inside??

I removed a nearly exact gravity hot air furnace from my brother-in-law's basement. It had an after market blower fan on it though. I took it apart piece by piece for removal. The same hot air heat exchanger was inside. It was large enough that maybe you could have a boiler HXC or HW coil inside. Not in this one.

There must be rule # something about working for in-laws. But the concern was for my sister. There were rooms without heat runs, no air filter and no AC. I installed a 90+ condensing furnace with a used AC unit. For the track record, in the last 16 years they have had to replace the inducer fan assembly and 1 HSI. The brother in law will not comment about the current NG bill (give no quarter in my direction ) so I believe it must be less than with the old furnace and gives better heat distribution.

PS: Jamie was yours a combo unit?

Jamie Hall

@JUGHNE -- no, it wasn't. And it just heated the north end of the main building. Installed in 1893! Most of the ductwork is still there -- I'm not quite sure why I haven't taken it, or the furnace, out yet, but I haven't. Not really in the way. I've toyed with the idea of getting the ducts thoroughly cleaned (boy would they have to be -- nothing like coal dust!) and using them for AC -- but it doesn't get hot enough often enough to be worth the effort.

Back in the day, the hot water was supplied by a coil in the wood/coal stove in the kitchen once running water was installed (about 1905). I can't believe that there was that much of it, but it must have been an improvement on schlepping kettles of luke warm water for a bath. The plumbing was interesting, shall we say. I've replaced almost all of that, though.

Charlie from wmass

the original water furnace

donaldmc

This unit is fully functional. The boiler part is a water jacket (see pics) around the combustion chamber and water circulates via gravity, feeds 81-10 cast iron radiators.
The LARGE air vents slowly give heat in almost every room (so says the home owner) I could not find a fan on the duct work so it too must be gravity! The return air vents are neatly placed in the bottom risers of the staircase, nice touch.
The DHW is from a electric water heater.

Jamie Hall

It was gravity air. If it is anything like the one in the place I care for, it worked remarkably well -- once one gets it going. It can take hours for the air circulation to get established, but once it does it's really quite pleasant -- and utterly silent. Response time is a bit slow... There is probably an outside air intake to the return plenum, controlled by a damper, as well as the building returns.

donaldmc

sorry 8-10 CI radiators

JUGHNE

That is a pretty unique system.
Some old water gravity systems had a plain steel compression tank hung between the floor joists in the basement to replace the attic open top tank. However a pressure relief valve must be added to the system as the relief previously was the attic tank overflowing into the drain pipe.

IIRC the add on fan blowers went on the top of the furnace with the wheel into the plenum. Belt drive motor was obvious on the exterior of the top.

Good longevity yes. However waiting, as Jamie said, possibly hours for the air to circulate and maybe longer for hot water to circulate, meant a lot of heat up the chimney before BTU's were delivered to the house. IMO

donaldmc

With winter coming, can anyone recommend a good heating guy to service the above antique? It is located in the Hamilton, NY area near Colgate Univ.
I'm in Westchester county - too far for a service call!

leonz

I would call The folks at Isaac Plumbing and Heating in Syracuse and ask for help. They have been doing plumbing and heating for a long time and they have expanded as well. They may also be able to clean the all ducts for your friend as well.

newagedawn

havnt seen one of those for awhile, nice antique

Dale_3

Demolished many Octopus furnaces in my younger days. You never know what you will find in the debris on top of that plenum and in those pipes. That's where my marble & Mil collection started. "That I can't seem to find now. " A lot of history there.

kathyann54

This is what is heating my house, but one of the vents isn't working. Checked it nothing is blocking it, no heat travels through it...does anyone know what to check or Do? Thank you

Fred

kathyann54 said:

This is what is heating my house, but one of the vents isn't working. Checked it nothing is blocking it, no heat travels through it...does anyone know what to check or Do? Thank you

Are you sure that"Vent" isn't a gravity return air for the furnace?

JUGHNE

Try holding a single tissue over that grill after all the others are heating, if it is drawn towards the grill then it is a return air duct.

The cold air returns were often under the windows and the hot air came out in the middle of the house, sometimes....usually.....not always.

Plus sometimes the hot pipes had a damper built into the register and perhaps also in the pipe in the basement. There would be a lever on the pipe, it runs a shaft going into the pipe.

Kybeans403

Right from that beauty into the Lennox Complete Heat System......