Another Evaporator replacement

Dave0176

I'm on a roll with these Evaps three in one month. 2007 York 2 ton the old problematic "blue" Evaporator coil. HO said he had a leak from the very first year and the contractor would continually charge it every year, you know "top it off" When he asked if it could be fixed the contractor told him no got to replace the whole system . Lol So he called me and I used my H10 and found the Evap coil leaking. Replaced it, pressure test held 175 psi for 30 mins, pull a vacuum to 188 microns and all is now good.

ChrisJ

Whats the deal with the blue York evaporators?

I recall hearing they had big problems with them, but why?

EBEBRATT-Ed

My GF has a window unit , must be 30 years +.old original to the condo. About 12 years ago it went flat. I figured with the age on it it wasn't worth spending much time on it, just get it going make it through the summer. Put a line tap on it and leak tested. Leak detector went nuts but I couldn't find the leak. I finally cut the evap out turned it upside down and found a pinhole where the tubing chafed. Brazed it, put the evap back, vacuum pump (no vac gage), guessed at the charge (no scale) a real hack job quickie!!

Figured we would get a year out of it. It's still going, cools like crazy

BobC

I had a 14,000 window shaker that cooled the first floor of the house for almost 20 years. I gave it away when I could no longer put it into the window by myself, the guy I gave it to said it does a great job on his first floor..

I had a Mitsubishi 12k heat pump mini split installed last summer knowing it probably won't last half as long but at least I don't have to put it into the window every year.

Bob

HVACNUT

Not a fan of anything by York. Poor quality and it seems like they're always a step behind.

ratio

But, but, they're cheap. Think of all the savings you'd realize by buying cheap.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Way back in the old days York quality was as good or better than anything. But times change Remember the old stand up water cooled units? The compressor looked like a football with the water cooled condenser wrapped around it. They ran forever

EBEBRATT-Ed

@BobC These are in wall sleeves.

Used to have an 18000. When I was in my 20s I would put it in and out by myself and carry it.

Then it was take it out set it on a towel on the hardwood floor and drag it over to a closet for the winter.

Now if I had to do it myself, forget it!!!!

Dave0176

HVACNUT said:

Not a fan of anything by York. Poor quality and it seems like they're always a step behind.

Well I'm a York dealer, that said the last 10 years have not been good to York. Ever since the Johnson Controls purchase their quality has gone waay down. The micro channel debacle, the really poor super thin copper evaps.

In the last two years though their have been major changes to a lot of stuff, they now offer which install I exclusively is a tube in fin copper condenser. The Evaporators have been redesigned with all aluminum tubing. I do like their furnaces especially the 96-97% two stage ones. They are now giving one full year of labor warrentees and offering 5 years extended labor warrentees, to qualify for that the installer must be certified by York for completing all training courses.

ChrisJ

Dave0176 said:

HVACNUT said:

Not a fan of anything by York. Poor quality and it seems like they're always a step behind.

Well I'm a York dealer, that said the last 10 years have not been good to York. Ever since the Johnson Controls purchase their quality has gone waay down. The micro channel debacle, the really poor super thin copper evaps.

In the last two years though their have been major changes to a lot of stuff, they now offer which install I exclusively is a tube in fin copper condenser. The Evaporators have been redesigned with all aluminum tubing. I do like their furnaces especially the 96-97% two stage ones. They are now giving one full year of labor warrentees and offering 5 years extended labor warrentees, to qualify for that the installer must be certified by York for completing all training courses.

Dave,
What causes the problems with the "blue" evaporators?
My dad had his replaced a few years back after it dumped it's entire load of R-22. All he remembers is the guy said "ah, another blue one, no wonder".

I'm curious why they failed, it can't be just because they're blue?

Dave0176

ChrisJ said:

Dave0176 said:

HVACNUT said:

Not a fan of anything by York. Poor quality and it seems like they're always a step behind.

Well I'm a York dealer, that said the last 10 years have not been good to York. Ever since the Johnson Controls purchase their quality has gone waay down. The micro channel debacle, the really poor super thin copper evaps.

In the last two years though their have been major changes to a lot of stuff, they now offer which install I exclusively is a tube in fin copper condenser. The Evaporators have been redesigned with all aluminum tubing. I do like their furnaces especially the 96-97% two stage ones. They are now giving one full year of labor warrentees and offering 5 years extended labor warrentees, to qualify for that the installer must be certified by York for completing all training courses.

Dave,
What causes the problems with the "blue" evaporators?
My dad had his replaced a few years back after it dumped it's entire load of R-22. All he remembers is the guy said "ah, another blue one, no wonder".

I'm curious why they failed, it can't be just because they're blue?

Haven't a clue why they colored them blue, however it was the start of the thinning of the copper tubing in the name of efficiency. Can't just blame York as I've replaced every brand of AC coils out there. Just our area had a lot of York products installed. As has been said the thinning plus the offshore manufacture of copper has caused what the manufacturers are referring to as micro fracturing of the copper tubing causing leaks. Just cutting an onion or using any ammonia based products started the micro fracturing. And everyone pretty much does this in their homes.

rwhtg

formicary corrosion?

unclejohn

Formicary is French for "We do not know" Anyone remember the York Heat Pipe Furnace?

mattmia2

So who does make reliable evaporators?

mikeg2015

mattmia2 said:

So who does make reliable evaporators?

They are all aluminum now, so not sure anyone is all that reliable. We sell Rheem and have several from around 2017 now that I suspect are leaking but can’t find the leak, but need 1-2lbs added every year. Have probably 10 systems out there now on a unofficial watch list out of I’d guess 200 or so systems installed in that time (we’re a small show. Average probably 2 a week with normally just 1 full install crew.

Problem seemed t go away the last year or so.

Dave0176

The York ones I’ve installed since they went all aluminum haven’t given me any trouble. Time will tell.
It all started with the efficiency craze as the manufacturers kept thinning the copper for better heat transfer, it worked however they made them unreliable.

mattmia2

Was it for efficiency or was it because the price of copper quadrupled in the early to mid 2000's? I can see where increasing turbulence would increase transfer buf I dont see where wall thickness would make much difference.

mikeg2015

mattmia2 said:

Was it for efficiency or was it because the price of copper quadrupled in the early to mid 2000's? I can see where increasing turbulence would increase transfer buf I dont see where wall thickness would make much difference.

I was thinking the same thing. I suspect cost. Wall thickness would not significantly change heat transfer rate, it would just increase mass. Which can be beneficial in some cases. I guess in theory a large tube ID would give it marginally more surface area. Can’t imagine that would make much difference. But hey, maybe 0.1% increase in efficiency made the difference and thye could install 0.2% less outdoor or indoor coil area.

mattmia2

Maybe the question I should be asking is who has a sealed system warranty that covers labor?

mikeg2015

I’m not sure any mfg cover labor in their equipment warranties. You’d have to buy an extended warranty, or the installing company maybe bundles the added warranty into the price.

Dave0176

York is now covering labor costs for I believe up to five years, to the original installer as long as all the warranty information has been submitted within the first 90 days. Usually when this happens the company is basically admitting they have issues with their products and have lost a large number of dealers. It’s an obvious attempt to stop the hemorrhaging.

They don’t pay you your labor late, they pay you based on a fair average labor rate. So it’ll most likely be no where near your normal labor rate. But I suppose it’s better than nothing.