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Zoomlock refrigeration press fittings

Paul S_3Paul S_3 Posts: 1,257Member
edited March 2017 in THE MAIN WALL
Have any of you guys been using the Zoomlock press fittings for a/c/ refrigeration systems?.... I have a good sized grocery store where I'm installing a bunch of reach ins and walk in boxes.... I would like some insight on the product .... before I make the jump to purchase it.....itll be a big time saver.... instead of brazing a thousand or so connections.... Thanks guys Paul S........ and I heard you can just buy the heads and it can be used on the Ridgid press machines.... RP200 and 340?
ASM Mechanical Company
Located in Staten Island NY
Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
347-692-4777
[email protected]
ASMHVACNYC.COM
https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company

Comments

  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,631Member
    The company I work for has used a lot of it. I myself have not used it yet.

    The only thing I herd was that if used with soft tubing that you can have leaks if the tubing comes off the roll and is not perfectly straight where it goes in the fitting
  • Bob Bona_4Bob Bona_4 Posts: 2,083Member
    edited March 2017
    One of my supply houses is stocking them. I'd use them in a heartbeat IF I knew they were as sound as a brazed or silver soldered joint. Refrigerant leaks are the worst, sneakiest things to happen and with armaflex and the crazy inaccessible places we run linesets, I'd need more faith than I have now. I'll sit this one out a few years...
  • Paul S_3Paul S_3 Posts: 1,257Member
    edited March 2017
    Thanks for the input guys...i think I'm going to braze this job, too many uncertainties .... I recently tested a zoomlock fitting....i pressurized it to 800 psi and it held.....but that is just a few joints... and they are not time tested.... I've made over tens of thousands propress connections in my career with a couple of failures due too poor installation ....i was in a rush and did not mark the depth of the pipe.... and in my opinion propress fittings will not leak and I believe just as good as soldering... but that's low pressure water....press fittings for high pressure gas I'm very sceptical
    ASM Mechanical Company
    Located in Staten Island NY
    Servicing all 5 boroughs of NYC.
    347-692-4777
    [email protected]
    ASMHVACNYC.COM
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/asm-mechanical-company
  • IronmanIronman Posts: 4,965Member
    Anyone old enough to remember Carrier's Compatible fitting from the '70s and '80s? If soft copper was used that wasn't perfectly round, then it would most likely leak. Use hard drawn and never have a problem. But that meant having to braze a hard drawn nipple on to the end of a soft drawn line set. So, what was the difference in doing that or just having a service valve that could be silfossed? Carrier finally wised up.

    I just don't see that much difference between that and the Zoomlook. I hope I'm wrong, but I would have more confidence in it if they'd used two O rings instead of one.
    Bob Boan


    You can choose to do what you want, but you cannot choose the consequences.
  • RPKRPK Posts: 68Member
    My employer started using ZoomLock a couple years ago. We have some pretty large VRF systems that went very smoothly and haven't had any issues. We had three smaller projects that had leak issues, and all but one leak were traced to improper installion practice. If not installed with care, it is easy to damage or dislodge the gasket when inserting the pipe. Soft copper does seem a little more problematic than hard.
  • Bob Bona_4Bob Bona_4 Posts: 2,083Member
    We've all unrolled enough copper and felt it egged out, ng for the Zoomlock seal. I can see success with hard drawn, which rarely gets used residential. The next think is how long will the o-rings last, will they be compatible with the next generation of refrigerants? Will they withstand chemical flushing?
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,631Member
    Again, haven't used it myself but some I work with have. They also said the smaller sizes are more problematic.

    I have a death grip on my torch
  • BigRobBigRob Posts: 243Member
    Anybody make inserts for soft copper?
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 687Member
    > @BigRob said:
    > Anybody make inserts for soft copper?

    Aren’t needed.
  • ratioratio Posts: 1,933Member
    pecmsg said:

    > @BigRob said:

    > Anybody make inserts for soft copper?



    Aren’t needed.

    But it makes me pucker up, nonetheless. Since you've gotta bring the torch out to complete the job in any case, I just burn the soft copper to the ACR & don't worry about it.
  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Posts: 1,458Member
    edited March 17
    I must admit that I find it funny the amount of guys who fall in love with pro-press, yet won't trust it for refrigeration (zoomlock). I think that a true 100% metal joint (soldered) is the best and is time tested. Too many debacles from un-time-tested methods.

    I'm in the camp of not trusting an O-ring long term for anything but an accessible seal (such as in a circulator).

    When I was an automotive mechanic, we saw many O ring failures after 10 years of operation on 134a systems. Those were all double O rings as well.

    If medium pressure 134a killed it in 10 years, then low pressure water will do in in 25 is my OPINION.
    Master electrician specialising in boiler and burner controls, multiple fuel systems, radiant system controls, building controls, and universal refrigeration tech.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,628Member

    I must admit that I find it funny the amount of guys who fall in love with pro-press, yet won't trust it for refrigeration (zoomlock). I think that a true 100% metal joint (soldered) is the best and is time tested. Too many debacles from un-time-tested methods.



    I'm in the camp of not trusting an O-ring long term for anything but an accessible seal (such as in a circulator).



    When I was an automotive mechanic, we saw many O ring failures after 10 years of operation on 134a systems. Those were all double O rings as well.



    If medium pressure 134a killed it in 10 years, then low pressure water will do in in 25 is my OPINION.

    Automotive sees extreme temperature swings.

    -10F sometimes, +200 other times...….
    Those O rings are under a very hot hood in the summer and yet really cold in the winter, if you're in an area that gets cold.

    I don't think that's a fair comparison.

    Of course, we're also talking O rings on nice machined surfaces vs on a "cleaned" copper pipe.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Posts: 1,458Member
    Hmmmm, well refrigeration sees all those same conditions. 300+psi and subzero temps. I only do commercial and industrial refrigeration.
    Master electrician specialising in boiler and burner controls, multiple fuel systems, radiant system controls, building controls, and universal refrigeration tech.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,628Member

    Hmmmm, well refrigeration sees all those same conditions. 300+psi and subzero temps. I only do commercial and industrial refrigeration.

    Perhaps.
    But I still suspect those temps are higher under the hood of a car idling in the hot sun on a 100+ day stuck in traffic.

    Though, I was mainly talking about the water applications, not refer. I personally like brazed joints.
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • Solid_Fuel_ManSolid_Fuel_Man Posts: 1,458Member
    A car is also a throwaway machine, with few ever exceeding the 20 user mark. A home's entire heat distribution system should not be looked at the same way. I certainly think you agree.

    Refrigeration sees very wide and rapid temp swings and pressures, coolers see this 24/7 for decades. We all chase enough refrigerant leaks!

    But dont get me wrong, the tempting thought of a faster install would be nice. But the risk of more than average leaks over the long term scares me off.
    Master electrician specialising in boiler and burner controls, multiple fuel systems, radiant system controls, building controls, and universal refrigeration tech.
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,312Member
    I’ll be installing a new AC system in my home this spring and I’ll be using Zoom-Lock fittings. I have a love hate relationship with technology.

    I love new ideas.

    I hate when they fail.
    Steve Minnich
    Tell me I can't, and I'll show you I can.
  • EBEBRATT-EdEBEBRATT-Ed Posts: 5,631Member
    I would be more apt to use it on accesable fittings. Buried in a wall not so much
  • ratioratio Posts: 1,933Member
    We use Zoomlock, enough that we burned up one press tool already. I suspect that they won't have the life of a solid braze joint, but I also know that a) it's significantly faster than brazing, and b) the systems we install will most likely be replaced within the service life of the fittings for one reason or another.

    My biggest gripe is that (so far), you always have to get the torch out on every job, and you always will, until the equip starts to come with press fittings on it or a reasonable-length pipe stub instead of a socket; and the lack of (AFAIK) press access tees. I won't install a system without teats at the indoor unit.

  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,628Member
    > @Steve Minnich said:
    > I’ll be installing a new AC system in my home this spring and I’ll be using Zoom-Lock fittings. I have a love hate relationship with technology.
    >
    > I love new ideas.
    >
    > I hate when they fail.

    So my DIYer system is all brazed using Staysilv 15. And yours will be zoom lock.

    I'm not saying, I'm just saying. :p
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • pecmsgpecmsg Posts: 687Member
    > @ChrisJ said:
    > > @Steve Minnich said:
    > > I’ll be installing a new AC system in my home this spring and I’ll be using Zoom-Lock fittings. I have a love hate relationship with technology.
    > >
    > > I love new ideas.
    > >
    > > I hate when they fail.
    >
    > So my DIYer system is all brazed using Staysilv 15. And yours will be zoom lock.
    >
    > I'm not saying, I'm just saying. :p

    Brazed
    Hope with N2.

    One major issue with Minis is the use of strainers throughout the system. That’s why they don’t like brazing.
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,312Member
    I brazed everyone of the AC systems I’ve installed since Nineteen Hundred and Eighty One.

    Does that make me sound like an old man?

    I thought so.

    Time for a change.

    On one of the last boilers jobs I did, I dropped my torch while up on a ladder. Unfortunately for me, it fell into the cuff of my glove. The resulting burn was quite remarkable and painful.

    If the Zoom-Lock fittings fail, so what?

    I know a guy that can braze pretty well 🤙
    Steve Minnich
    Tell me I can't, and I'll show you I can.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,628Member
    edited March 17
    pecmsg said:

    > @ChrisJ said:

    > > @Steve Minnich said:

    > > I’ll be installing a new AC system in my home this spring and I’ll be using Zoom-Lock fittings. I have a love hate relationship with technology.

    > >

    > > I love new ideas.

    > >

    > > I hate when they fail.

    >

    > So my DIYer system is all brazed using Staysilv 15. And yours will be zoom lock.

    >

    > I'm not saying, I'm just saying. :p



    Brazed

    Hope with N2.



    One major issue with Minis is the use of strainers throughout the system. That’s why they don’t like brazing.

    Brazed while flowing nitrogen and then a triple evacuation down to 100 microns. Stabilized at 120 microns after 20 minutes isolated from the pump

    I also like to use a flow gauge so I know it's flowing and how much.






    @Steve Minnich No, you don't sound old. :)
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • ratioratio Posts: 1,933Member
    @ChrisJ, I like your vacuum caddy!
  • Steve MinnichSteve Minnich Posts: 2,312Member
    @ChrisJ - you couldn’t break that 3 digit marker, huh?

    I knew a guy who pulled a trip vac down to 61 microns 😂
    Steve Minnich
    Tell me I can't, and I'll show you I can.
  • ChrisJChrisJ Posts: 9,628Member

    @ChrisJ - you couldn’t break that 3 digit marker, huh?



    I knew a guy who pulled a trip vac down to 61 microns 😂

    It was 12:30 at night and I had to work in the morning. :)
    Single pipe quasi-vapor system. Typical operating pressure 0.14 - 0.43 oz. EcoSteam ES-20 Advanced Control for Residential Steam boilers. Rectorseal Steamaster water treatment
  • SuperTechSuperTech Posts: 938Member
    @ChrisJ I have had the best results when I remove my manifold from the equation when evacuating. 5/8" hose from vacuum pump to micron gauge and unit. The lower the number of hose connections the better. I really like the Appion Mega Flow kit for evacuation. Makes performing a quick, deep, triple evac possible.
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