The Uber of HVAC?

Erin Holohan Haskell

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one: http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20170113/two-sarasota-guys-make-uber-of-hvac

ratio

Huh. Order a furnace online. What could go wrong?

Jamie Hall

Maybe we should have a link on their website to provide help when things go wrong?

Harvey Ramer

The home services market is huge. I think people are starting to realize that, because we see more and more companies trying to grab part of the pie. They want a share but don't want to work for it. They want to sell products and then also make money off the backs of contractors.

STEVEusaPA

Ugh. It's just another buying 'service' where the end user will get it cheap, but not much service.
Basically the installer will be doing it for a very low, pre-determined rate-much like a Home Depot type model. Some people may sign up to get business, but what happens when you show up to do the job, and because no one looked at it ahead of time, there will either be:
a) lots of extras
b) the installer is forced to hack it in, leading to unhappy customers, who will complain to the company, who will force the installer to go back again and again.
Goodman?...not me

A replacement is a great time to really deliver comfort and more comfort options, evaluate/fix duct problems, evaluate and address venting, combustion air etc. None of that will happen.

delta T

"The PriceFixer.com site markets largely wholesale heating and cooling equipment, providing quotes based on the specified size of the home."

So now we will have more oversized inefficient systems plaguing the market? This sounds to me like the big orange box water heater installs. Take the profit away from the installer, make it cheap for the consumer, but it will all be okay because you (the installer) are guaranteed lots and lots of work!



Who is at fault when the algorithm used to size the furnace replacement is as simple as Sq. ft. X 40 (must be north of that one interstate in MA right?), and now the fancy 90% furnace doesn't meet the energy saving expectations of the customer? I would imagine that they pass all liability for such things back to the installer (we are the experts right? we should know better!).

What if there are vastly undersized ducts in the house? what if other unforseeable circumstances such as a rotted flue, undersized gas line, uninsulated ducting in a non conditioned space, arise? Can these be dealt with by a simple conversation with the end customer, or is there fine print requiring the installer to stick to the bid?

Lots of questions and so many things not taken into account given what the reality of what it is that we do every day.

Can you imagine if they tried to include hydronics in this as well?

~shudder~

Erin Holohan Haskell

Great points. An Uber ride may be one-size-fits-all, but the work here is not. And their promise of the fastest and cheapest quote? Yikes!

ChrisJ

delta T said:

"The PriceFixer.com site markets largely wholesale heating and cooling equipment, providing quotes based on the specified size of the home."

So now we will have more oversized inefficient systems plaguing the market? This sounds to me like the big orange box water heater installs. Take the profit away from the installer, make it cheap for the consumer, but it will all be okay because you (the installer) are guaranteed lots and lots of work!



Who is at fault when the algorithm used to size the furnace replacement is as simple as Sq. ft. X 40 (must be north of that one interstate in MA right?), and now the fancy 90% furnace doesn't meet the energy saving expectations of the customer? I would imagine that they pass all liability for such things back to the installer (we are the experts right? we should know better!).

What if there are vastly undersized ducts in the house? what if other unforseeable circumstances such as a rotted flue, undersized gas line, uninsulated ducting in a non conditioned space, arise? Can these be dealt with by a simple conversation with the end customer, or is there fine print requiring the installer to stick to the bid?

Lots of questions and so many things not taken into account given what the reality of what it is that we do every day.

Can you imagine if they tried to include hydronics in this as well?

~shudder~

Who say's they won't?

You're forgetting, most people are ok with "good enough". If the house heats, or cools, they're happy. It doesn't matter if the bedroom doors always have to be open. It doesn't matter if the ducts leak 40% into unconditioned spaces.


Seems like most will cut their own throats buying foreign made goods just because one item is 15 cents cheaper than another. Don't think for a second they won't go with "almost right" for a heating or cooling system to save a large chunk of money.



Right now, I'm picturing all of the rotted ductwork I've seen guys pull out of the mud in crawlspaces, or flex duct in attics filled with water.

Ironman

In addition to all of the valid points already made, what about this: the IRC requires that HVAC systems be sized based upon a load calc such as Manual J. That's the law in most states. Their online calculator which is based on square footage automatically circumvents that.

Imagine: Harry Home Owner wants a new system because his is old and doesn't perform properly. He has a 2.5 ton heat pump. He thinks bigger is better, so he chooses a 5 ton system. His ductwork will only hadle 2.5 tons, but he doesn't know that. He buys the 5 ton online and a contractor comes out to install it. He sees it's not right, but he doesn't want to lose this sale or future referrals because this customer insists that he wants the 5 ton and he may give the contractor a bad review. So, he installs it and goes his merry way. We all know what the outcome will be. The contractor will say that he was only contracted to install it, not size it. The internet peddler will say that's what the customer wanted and if it was wrong, the contractor should have told the home owner. The finger pointing just keeps on going until the home owner finally calls a competent HVAC contractor who rips it out and installs the correct system.

Yes sir, that's a great business model.

And, let me add this: competent, established contractors want nothing to do with this kind of thing. It's the guys who are just starting out and are hungry for business at any cost who fall prey for this kind of scam. It plays upon the greed of the consumer who wants to get something for far less than what it's worth and the vulnerability of the contractor who has no business sense, while the Internet scammer rakes in the profit for doing virtually none of the work.

Dave H_2

So basically they are saying that the traditional model is broken and they know what it costs each independent contractor to keep their doors open and pay their technicians a fair wage and pay for inventory of products when everything that is needed for the install is not "in the box" that gets delivered and pay for the fuel and for the trucks and their tools and the education that the techs do on a yearly basis.

Yes buying online is a nice feature to make sure you know what you are getting for the dollars spent but do customers really know what they need to be comfortable or be efficient and not wasteful or the latest codes and standards?

Tinman

I love the line "we're just going as low as we can possibly go".

I stopped reading at that point.

delta T

I would love to see the fine print on their 10 yr parts and labor warranties....

ChrisJ

delta T said:

I would love to see the fine print on their 10 yr parts and labor warranties....

How much worse could it be than most warranties that either never pay, or just aren't worth the effort?

The best are the ones where you have to return the item to get a replacement, but the shipping costs are more than just buying a new one. But, it came with a 50 year warranty!

John Mills_5

ratio said:

Huh. Order a furnace online. What could go wrong?

A few years ago, our salesman, who told me about this venture just this morning, was called out to quote putting in a customer provided Goodman internet special. He says, hey buddy - you should have ordered an 042 not an 024. You ain't gonna heat & cool your house with a 2 ton. oooops. Never did hear back from him. Wonder if the internet place let him swap up to the right one and how much it cost him!

rick in Alaska

Yeah< i keep getting offers from Amazon to be their provider around here. Lots of work! When I am literally at the end of the road, I don't see many customers coming off this. And even if I did, it would still be, "no thanks".
Rick

STEVEusaPA

Yeah the Amazon 'deal' is heavily weighted on their end.

Gordy

This is one thing I think online reviews should, and will weigh heavily on sucesss, and failures of this buisiness model.