Manufacturing in America

Erin Holohan Haskell

Here's an insightful article by Bill Gray of Uponor about rebuilding the reputation of manufacturing in America. He says that, "For companies like Uponor, it starts with telling our story, overcoming the negative stigma and showcasing some of the opportunities that a career in manufacturing offers." I agree. I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Harvey Ramer

I think it's a very good article.

Paul48

I won't get into "when" or "why" we've lost so many manufacturing jobs. Every one has their own opinion about that. I can only say, that if we are not manufacturing in this country, we're in big trouble. Everyone needs to go to work. We need the promise of a good future through hard work. That's the "foundation" of this country. If you take a huge segment of the population, and give them no hope, they WILL destroy this country.

hot_rod

It's odd that so many are unemployed and yet 100 of thousands of manufacturing jobs are open. Some paying $15.00 starting salary. This site, one of many if you google manufacturing jobs, claims to have 470,000 openings.

Uponor has a nice package to attract workers.

Harvey Ramer

It's not so odd when you take into account the welfare cliff.

https://fee.org/articles/if-you-accept-this-raise-you-fall-off-the-welfare-cliff/

I am thinking some reform is needed to encourage all americans to climb the ladder to success and make things better for everyone.

hot_rod

Harvey Ramer said:

It's not so odd when you take into account the welfare cliff.

https://fee.org/articles/if-you-accept-this-raise-you-fall-off-the-welfare-cliff/

I am thinking some reform is needed to encourage all americans to climb the ladder to success and make things better for everyone.

Yeah, someone better figure out that reform that will put people in those jobs, before they bring millions of manufacturing jobs back from off shore.

Build the factories, create the jobs, then shut down or cut back the welfare programs.

Paul48

I know the point you're making, but none of those companies on that list are manufacturers. Based on that fact alone.......toss the whole list as bogus. They're to incompetent to gather information, it seems.

Paul48

OK...........Lets see hands......Do you believe there are 5000 vacant manufacturing jobs in your state?

DanHolohan

Paul, any good thoughts for the holidays?

Fred

All I can tell you is that Fouya, a Chinese auto glass manufacturer bought a huge GM manufacturing facility here in my area, three years ago. The hired 800 people, initially and now employ 2000 with plans to add another 1000 jobs in the next few months. Every time they have job fairs and accept applications, they have about 10 applicants for every available position. Most people wanted that facility torn down, saying it would never be usable and would be a maintenance and tax burden on the local communities (as GM donated the property to the local city. Tear it down and use the land for new housing projects, was the cry, like there were tons of people in a position to buy new homes, during the height of the foreclosure crisis.

SlamDunk

Paul48 said:

OK...........Lets see hands......Do you believe there are 5000 vacant manufacturing jobs in your state?

There are that many in a 30 mile radius of my house.

There are more job titles involved in manufacturing than "manufacturing operator".

That said, I saw on the news that there is a state of the art steel plant in Mississppi with 600 employees round the clock. They said, in the past, a plant with the same production capacity would have employed 4000 employees. One worker said he easily ,akes 100k.

Mad Dog_2

There are quite a few key reasons manufacturers left. We're all familiar with the usual arguments, and we could spar all night. I have my strong opinions on the main reasons, but one many forget is how many Americans lost interest in "buying American." When my installation company was in full swing several yrs ago, I' d say maybe 5 % of folks would pay a bit extra for USA made., ball valves, fittings. Many Americans today worship the SALE, sports, Facebook. Their countrymen and country's welfare is the last thing on their mind. There's a lot of blame to go around, but when The Memorial Day parade is over, and little Johnny and Jane's parents take the photos, you're lucky to get 30 people at the Military Honors Ceremony. Seen it with my own fambly and friends. BBQs, and sales are more important. I've been Union , non union, worker and business owner, but ALWAYS...AMERICAN FIRST! Mad Dog

hot_rod

Paul48 said:

I know the point you're making, but none of those companies on that list are manufacturers. Based on that fact alone.......toss the whole list as bogus. They're to incompetent to gather information, it seems.

How about 3 million open jobs, you decide what title they fall under.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/three-million-open-jobs-in-us-but-whos-qualified/3/

BobC

There are a lot of jobs that get taken over by automation - those jobs a re gone FOREVER. When employers say they can't find workers with the right skill set all to often means they just want an excuse to ship the job out or they want to bring cheaper help in.

Time was you would hire someone with some aptitude and give them some OJT to get them up to speed, now they have a list of 45 specific skills and they want proof you have them or that job goes. It goes because somebody up the chain has made the decision to pay ZERO for employee training.

I used to hire high school kids and put them to work in a lab doing all kinds of jobs the senior techs didn't have time for, they learned a new skill and we got young eager help that came into the plant at 1PM and lit the place up with their energy. This was before company CEO's decided they had to hoard all the money for themselves and fellow thieves. Most of that crowd is a legend in their own minds and little else.

If you want to make America great again I suggest you look someplace else than that the pool of moguls that screwed everything up in the first place.

Bob

Paul48

I think it's great that Uponor is hiring. Within it's power, this government should give them the same advantages that they would be given by foreign governments. Every other country actively competes for businesses and jobs. It's time for the US to do the same. There is absolutely no reason for a manufacturer to move to an EU country.

Mad Dog_2

NYC has a great Vocationial high school...It HAD a LEGENDARY !!!!!!!÷!!!! plumbing program, probably up to about 15-20 yrs ago. When you graduated THAT highschool, in a few yrs, out in the field, you were ready to sit for THE PRESTIGIOUS NYC Master Plumber Exam. Some GENIUS decided that Computers were a better field to go in to........No problem. Backed up sewers...cross connections...boilers IMPROPERLY installed....no problem. ..I have My Internet connection!! Lattes!! chardonnay,Xanax...Sunday .soccer! . We, deplorables will stay at.our stations. ..doing the right thing...just dont get dirty, son..you're BETTER than that.....When THEY, who know so much better they we, stop looking down on blue collar workers that keep their crap running, realize that their little Matthews and Madisons ARE NOT TOO good to plunge a toilet, sweep a floor, crawl on their bellies through asbestos, rat filled, chlordane filled crawlspaces....THEN! we can have a conversation about....WHAT HAPPENED TO OUR COUNTRY in the last 40 yrs!!.
Mad Dog

Fred

Tell us how you really feel, @Mad Dog

Mad Dog_2

Don' t get me going, Fred..Trust me, I toned it down . Mad Dog

SlamDunk

maybe they look down on us, maybe we have moments of low self esteem. All I know is , me and my immediate coworkers genuinely enjoy our jobs and have fun. we dont have to fake anything and can pretty much tell people like it is. I wouldnt trade for anything.

Everyone else is on xanax

Gordy

Plain, and simple, above, and beyond what Mad Dog states which is very true is this.

The means, and methods of increasing productivity in manufacturing has been the undoing of that specific work force for decades.

Take note of SlamDunk's post. They reduced the work force by a factor of over 5 times to produce the same quantity of product. One company.......

The dollars we earn today have little value compared to the days of most of our parents, and grandparents.

The Welfare cliff will have to be reformed with the ferocity of a guillotine.

SWEI

It's not just the welfare cliff -- there are similar disincetives at work with unemployment, Social Security, and other programs. As soon someone earns one dollar more than whatever threshold has been set, benefits instantly fall to zero. The answer IMO is some kind of transition zone, during which the bennies fall more slowly than the earned income rises.

Sailah

I love being in manufacturing. We've been making steam traps in Boston (Randolph) since 1897. In fact I left a job in financial sales specifically to go into manufacturing. Most of our employees have been here for 20-30 years. Some are close to 45 years.

We take pride in what we do, everyone cares about the product. Even the guy packing the UPS boxes. I enjoy talking to customers (most of the time ). I enjoy fixing, inventing, innovating, going on site inspections, talking with you all. I skip to work everyday, it's truly an enjoyable experience.

I can't guarantee all the employees who work here feel the same, a lot of it is very repetitive work. But they still come to work and I'm proud of their commitment.

We have no plans to move to Mexico, although if the new president wants to throw a tax break our way I can certainly threaten to....

Fred

@Sailah , I'm sure he'll be throwing something your way. Just remains to be seen what that might be.

BobC

@Sailah Let me tell you about the experience I had the last time someone tried to save manufacturing jobs.

i worked at a manufacturing plant in Watertown for most of my adult life. Most of our employees had been there for decades, they knew their trade inside and out.

In the early 90's the parent company sold us to a cabal that came in and decided the place had to be completely revamped. They spent several months doing their due diligence and announced the pay structure of the plant was 30% higher than could be justified. When the old managers pointed out the decades of experience it was dismissed as one years experience that was repeated 20 times. They dismissed most of the old management and reduced the floor workers pay by 30% - accept it or quit.

They couldn't do that to those of us in engineering because it would kill the company so our pay stayed the same. At the same time they brought in a bunch of MBA's to implement their plan.

Fifteen months later that plant was shuttered, the new owners absconded to PA with about a million dollars of government aid they got for "keeping jobs in Massachusetts"

i was the last engineering employee to leave the plant. A month after I left I got a call from the new boss who went down to PA, it seems they bollixed up the backup tapes (by restoring them all to the same directory so you couldn't tell what drawing belonged to which job) I had made of all the engineering drawings and wanted to know if I had copies. I told him of course I did and he was welcome to take me to court to get them back.

That operation collapsed within a few months and all that was left was a trail of sorrow. I know a couple of people had serious medical problems at that time and because the new owners had not paid the premiums for the last 3 months (without telling the employees) those folks lost their homes and the marriages ended up in divorce court.

Things were not all bad - the guy who did this took the money he stole and bought himself a nice place on the coast of Maine. It's amazing what the really well off PT Barnums of this world can get away with.

Bob

Erin Holohan Haskell

Great conversation, guys. Thanks to all for sharing.

So how do we get the next generations involved?

Harvey Ramer

It starts at home. Limit the x-box and TV time. Get them involved with projects in the shop and around the house. Even if they can't always do it right. Get them involved in crafty projects at an early age. It teaches them the appreciation of creating something with their hands. Never let them give up.

Erin Holohan Haskell

Great points, @Harvey Ramer.

Solid_Fuel_Man

It is an interesting debate for sure. I, for one try to always sell my customers on quality. I tell it like it is, and they appreciate that. I buy American, when the quality is high and the price is reasonable. That said, I have found, at times, foreign-made things to meet those standards. Generally that means EU-made, but I always give USA first choice and try to incorporate as much US made in every job as possible.

As a control guy, and a licenced electrician I work mostly on automated production equipment. I work in several small industrial facilities as a specialized service. It is interesting the contrast in the "quality" of workers and the wages paid.

All of my contacts are management, and I have had these discussions often with them. They all tell me that if people would show up to work on time, and have motivation they would move up the ladder, and some do. But the turnover in these entry level jobs is astounding. And the drug problems associated with just complicates things more.

I believe there are several factors, one being the sense of entitlement. Another being ambition and a realistic expectation of what one can afford whilst just starting out in life. Grandiose ideas of having new cars and new houses when your 25 and never growing up and working to pay for it all.

Learn a trade and strive to be the best at it.

Taylor

Sailah

Erin Holohan Haskell said:

Great conversation, guys. Thanks to all for sharing.

So how do we get the next generations involved?

I work on projects around the house with my kids all the time. My daughter has been driving the tractor since she was 5. My son had his first Snap On ratchet when he was 4. We do everything around the house ourselves. I give them chores. Teach them a work ethic.

I bring them to work and give them tasks every so often. They get their hands dirty. When I have a Daddy project like welding, I give them a simple project in the shop like organizing sockets by size. When I ask my daughter to get a 3/8" flex head ratchet and 9/16" 6 sided socket she knows exactly what to get.

My dad was the same way. We were building boats together, lots of woodworking. I learned how to make things when I was a tot and it stuck with me.

At least the manufacturing I'm involved in is solving problems daily, that's how I like to train my kids. Not saying I think they will work here but just a good skill set for life really. Being self sufficient and getting it done.

We also have fun doing it, kids were asking me for a week to drive the forklift so I lifted up a large motor generator set with them.

Mad Dog_2

Nice picture. I had Matt Jr. out on service calls and boilers as much as possible when he was 5. The girls sometimes too. They learned how to speak to people, handle financial transactions, et cetera. I get them out fishing, shooting, hunting as much as possible. None will likely go in to the trades, but they have common sense knowledge of how mechanical systems work and respect for hard physical work. The high schools STILL don't do enough to encourage trades, especially in the suburbs. Some parents are finally realizing that its OK being a plumber or an electrician and that college is NOT for everyone. I'd love to see that vocational h.s. bring back plumbing! Mad Dog

SlamDunk

That picture would give most employers and all insurers major heartburn. More than one rider on a lift? Children? Tsk, Tsk,

Sailah

I also rip the tags off mattresses and run with scissors.

I don't coddle my kids. They'll either learn the lessons in life sitting in my lap or when I'm not around. I'll take the former.

SlamDunk

You rip the tags off mattresses too?!? That's punishable by law!

Sailah

I know, makes me feel like a badass.

Solid_Fuel_Man

Hurry! Call the mattress tag police!

Taylor

BobC

Sorry to say I've alerted homeland security about this heinous crime. They are preparing the wet noodles as I type.

Bob

Mad Dog_2

You know how I learned.to ride horses at age 5? Papa threw me on Poncho the Shetland pony's back, told me to grab his mane and smacked him on his arse...He took off across the paddock on a dead gallop until I Fell off. Did this for hours until I learned. No helmets. Mad Dog

Gordy

How did we ever live this long???? Ahh the scars of life...

SlamDunk

I know I have posted this before. Worth re-posting :

How did we survive childhood?
TO ALL THE KIDS WHO WERE BORN IN THE 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's and 70's!

First, we survived being born to mothers
Who smoked and/or drank while they were
Pregnant.

They took aspirin, ate blue cheese dressing,
Tuna from a can and didn't get tested for diabetes.

Then after that trauma, we were put to sleep on our tummies in baby cribs
covered with bright colored lead-base paints.

We had no childproof lids on medicine bottles,
Locks on doors or cabinets and when we rode
Our bikes, we had baseball caps not helmets on our heads.

As infants & children,
We would ride in cars with no car seats,
No booster seats, no seat belts, no air bags, bald tires and sometimes no
brakes.

Riding in the back of a pick-up truck on a warm day
Was always a special treat.

We drank water
From the garden hose and not from a bottle.

We shared one soft drink with four friends,
From one bottle and no one actually died from this.

We ate cupcakes, white bread, real butter and bacon.
We drank Kool-Aid made with real white sugar.
And, we weren't overweight.
WHY?

Because we were
Always outside playing...that's why!

We would leave home in the morning and play all day,
As long as we were back when the
Streetlights came on.

No one was able
To reach us all day. And, we were O.K.

We would spend hours building our go-carts out of scraps
And then ride them down the hill, only to find out
We forgot the brakes. After running into the bushes
a few times, we learned to solve the problem.


We did not have Playstations, Nintendo's and X-boxes.
There were no video games, no 150 channels on cable,
No video movies or DVD's, no surround-sound or CD's,
No cell phones, No personal computers, no Internet and no chat rooms. WE HAD
FRIENDS
And we went outside and found them!

We fell out of trees, got cut, broke bones and teeth
And there were no lawsuits from these accidents.

We ate worms and mud pies made from dirt,
And the worms did not live in us
Forever.

We were given BB guns for our 10th birthdays,
Made up games with sticks and tennis balls and,
Although we were told it would happen,
We did not put out very many eyes.

We rode bikes or walked to a friend's house and
Knocked on the door, or just
Walked in and talked to them.

Little League had tryouts and not everyone made the team.
Those who didn't had to learn to deal
With disappointment.
Imagine that!!

The idea of a parent bailing us out if we broke the law
Was unheard of.
They actually sided with the law!

These generations have produced some of the best
Risk-takers, problem solvers and inventors ever!

…….Kind of makes you want to run through the house
with scissors, doesn't it ?

Sailah

Agree. Although I just squeaked by being born in 1978...

NY_Rob

I was born in the 60's... wow, so much of that above post is accurate.

But.... when I see my daughters physics & chemistry homework (Engineering/Material Science major, Jr year) it's something I would never ever be able to do. It's literally a full loos-leaf page from top to bottom- one incredibly long equation... and she understands it!