Valve zone - no heat despite new head assembly, working thermostat

hilary9

Heat stopped working in one of 3 zones. The heat was working fine, then one day the heat did not shut off. I lightly tapped the zone valve motor with a hammer and the end switch engaged, and heat stopped. I sprayed with a little WD-40. That happened 3 times, then the heat stopped working altogether. I replaced entire head assembly (motor and end switch), ball valve, double checked wiring, checked thermostat. Everything is working properly. The end switch engages when the thermostat calls for heat. Hot water comes to the valve, but does not seem to be passing through the valve (although I can't see, the pipe on the outflow does not get hot as do other zones when heat is on), despite the motor and end switch engaging when the thermostat calls for heat. After replacing the ball valve, I checked to be sure it was installed correctly. Not sure what else it could be? Anyone have ideas? Thanks!

Ironman

Did you properly purge the air from the loop?

Tim McElwain

Is this a Honeywell Zone valve with a number V8043 E or F?

hilary9

I did not purge the air from the loop. How do I do that?
Honeywell V8043E
Thank you!

Ironman

Post some pics of the piping and valve. What type of emitters do you have? Post some pics of those also.

No two systems are exactly the same. It's gonna depend on how it's piped.

hilary9

Ok, here are some photos. The boiler is in a closet with a louvered doors that partially block the view of the zone shut-off valve.

hilary9

One more thing - we are on well water. Not sure if that makes a difference?

billtwocase

After you have verified that the valve is opening, and the end switch is signaling on the boiler, what is the pressure on the system, and what did you replace? The head/motor on this model does not require draining water or pressure to replace. It also appears that the zone is piping is below this point, so it would have not emptied. Is that gate valve opened, and there is a possibility that the wedge is stuck, and not open. Does the circulator work? Upper zones can get gravity heat when there is hot water and the valve has opened, but not below if so. Just a few thoughts

billtwocase

I will add that you will only get heat out of that baseboard with the cover off. The rug has eliminated the air inlet underneath. No air flow, no heat

hilary9

Thanks Billtwocase.
I replaced the entire head assembly and also replaced the ball valve. After replacing and still no heat, I removed the ball vale once more to check that it was in the correct position. When replacing the ball, the pipe is open - Does it still not require purging the air? Not sure what you mean by the Wedge?
Circulator is a Taco. It's quiet, but it sounds like it's spinning. Pipe into and out of is hot.

If the rug under the baseboard is a problem, why would it have been working last week? I can try pulling the rug away

We actually tried to purge the air, but had no luck. Here's what we tried: First, we turned off the power. Then set the bottom valve zone to manual open, then closed the red knob and opened the drain spigot with bucket below. We got maybe 3 cups of water and then nothing. Also tried pulling up on the pressure reducing valve, but nothing changed - pressure did not change, no water came out. Then we tried opening the red valve and closing all other zone valves. Still nothing. Right now, PSI is at about 12.
After watching a bunch of youtube videos, purging seems like it should be simple. But it's not working here. What am I missing?

billtwocase

Are both gate valves open? Looks like all zones can be isolated. Does the lever move easily to the open position with the thermostat turned up? If not, then you have a thermostat or wiring problem. Also sound like you need a new feed valve and pressure gauge, and purging if there are no valves off. When you manually open the valve, and turn up another zone, does it get heat? Try that to troubleshoot for air or circ issue

billtwocase

and as far as the baseboard, there should be at least a 1/2 gap under the cover when it is on. Judging from how the end cap is sitting, that rug was added after the fact. Hot water will still flow thru the piping, but you need air flow thru the fins for it to provide adequate heat. Just a heads up that's all

Ironman

What's the pressure gauge reading on the boiler?

hilary9

Ironman: pressure gauge reads ~12PSI

Billtwocase: yes, the end switch on the problem zone moves freely when the thermostat is calling for heat.. We have ruled out thermostat and wiring problems. I tried turning heat off on thermostat and manually opening valve on problem zone, then turned heat up in working zone. Still no heat. Pressure gauge now reading 12 PSI, so I assume it's working?

hilary9

See blogpost for more details on our troubleshooting process:
http://www.skyecooley.com/single-post/2016/12/04/Troubleshooting-Baseboard-Heaters

Still no heat! Cold temps here (1 degree at 11:30am)!

rick in Alaska

My bet is if you turn off the water supply to the boiler and open the relief valve until you get no flow, you will still have 12 psi on the gauge. My guess is that the gauge is bad along with the fill valve.
Try increasing the pressure in the boiler with the manual lever on the fill valve and see if the gauge goes up. If it does, run the pressure up to about 20 psi and then try bleeding it.
Rick

hilary9

gauge is working. We turned off water supply, drained the boiler via relief valve, and gauge dropped to 0. Refilling boiler now and PSI is slowly increasing. We tried this once before and pressure just does not get any higher thatn 12 PSI

STEVEusaPA

I think you call in reinforcements
If the gauge doesn't work, and she adds water, it's going to pop the relief valve, and it looks like the relief valve is behind the boiler.
It's pretty easy for someone to properly check the zone valve, and purge the zone. Looks like it's pipe right to easily purge. Hopefully that zone doesn't go thru an unheated area and the pipe froze.

Ironman

To purge the zone of air, do this:
1.turn the switch off to the boiler
2. Open the valve on the fill line and allow the boiler to pressurize to at least 12 psi. More would be better (20 psi), but that would involve adjusting the fill valve or opening its manual bypass lever which can over-pressurize the system and pop the relief valve.
3. Connect a hose to the black handle boiler drain valve circled in the pic.
4. Place the other end of the hose where it can discharge water safely - like outside.
5. Close the red handle valve circled in the pic.
6. Move the manual open lever on the zone valve to where it latches in the open position. It's under the wire terminals and will offer resistance when moving it open.
7. Open the black handle boiler drain with the hose on it allow it to discharge until a solid stream of water comes out with no air. Do it for at least 3 - 4 minutes, but keep an eye on the boiler pressure gauge. If it drops below 8 -10 psi, close the boiler drain until it gets above 12 psi. Keep doing it until no air is coming out of the hose.
8. Close the zone valve. Leave the red valve closed if you need to do the other zones.
9. Once air is purged from all zones, make sure that your static fill pressure is 12 - 15 psi.
10. Remove the hose, open the red handle valves and let it rip.

If this doesn't fix it, then it may be time to get a pro.

hilary9

Tried it - nothing!
We can't system to go above 12 psi no matter what we do. It did drop slightly when I opened the black drain, but not below 10 psi. A short-lasting dribble of water is all we got - left open for 6 minutes.

I hate to do it, but maybe we call someone to take a look?

Ironman

You need more pressure.

Here two different boiler fill valves. You should have a similar one. They come pre-set to 12 psi. Loosen the lock nut on the stem and turn the screw clockwise a few turns until the pressure rises to 25 psi and stays there. Then try purging the loop(s) again. Back the adjusting screw out when finished to where the pressure stays at 15 psi and lock the nut down gently. You may have to open the drain and let water out of the hose to get the pressure to decrease. Just make sure it comes back up to 15 psi.

The lever that one of them has is a manual bypass which keeps the valve fully open for purging. You could use that instead of the adjusting screw, but don't let the boiler pressure get above 25 psi. Keep the hose valve open so this doesn't happen. Then close the bypas lever BEFORE closing the hose valve.

hilary9

Our boiler fill valve looks like this:
pulling the valve lever up does not change the pressure. Is this the problem - bad fill valve?

Ironman

Is there a shut off valve up stream of it that's closed?

There's a rod under the lever that pushes open the fill valve. Unscrew the cap and see if it's been removed.

Here's a link:
http://s3.supplyhouse.com/product_files/0386425-install.pdf

Paul48

If you flip that lever and the pressure doesn't change.....either the water is turned of, or the regulator is broken. Flipping that should give you city pressure, and normally you don't want to do that with things closed up.
A 3rd possibility is the gauge is broken, although if the relief valve didn't start spitting water, probably not.